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From "William A. Rowe, Jr." <>
Subject Re: [Issue] External links @ the wiki, aka pagechange wars
Date Thu, 24 May 2007 16:35:55 GMT
[for infra, who is bcc'ed - three * bullets below]

Joshua Slive wrote:
> Although I respect Bill's desire to have this solved apache-wide, I
> actually think that this case would have been better addressed in the
> closer confines of docs@httpd. Let's just address this particular case
> and not worry about the general issue for now.

-sorry- if I've given that impression - and in fairness to all, we do want
an /httpd/ policy so that we can perform the mandatory oversight.

* I'm not suggesting we are setting policy for anything beyond wiki.a.o/httpd/

Each project has to apply whatever supervision/guidance it's PMC decides.

> The Apache wiki is not some democratic exercise like wikipedia where
> we need to treat everyone equally. We are a meritocracy, not a
> democracy, even on the wiki. Certain people (like Rich) have earned
> the right to make final decisions about what should be on the wiki.
> AskApache has not earned that right.

Well said.

> The content that he is adding is inappropriate (and violates my
> suggested policy) for many reasons. I suggest that someone email him
> and tell him that he is henceforth banned from:
> 1) Making any links to his personal site; and
> 2) Reverting any change made by someone else (even if that change is a
> reversion of his change).
> If he can't live with those rules, he can be banned for good.

Actually, it's pretty clear this was already asked, and answered by his
actions.  It would be good to know about off-list dialogs like this, at
least by a cc/bcc to private@h.a.o, so we know the warning is out there
and can simply swing the ban-stick when the warning is violated.  It
obviously has been since Rich already communicated these rules.  Since
Rich and others already asked AskApache on multiple occasions ...

> If you would like me to send this email (as someone who has not
> interacted with him before) I'd be fine with that (although I don't
> know his address).

This time I think Rich and others have already done so, and have gone
above and beyond to help him participate constructively.  S/he can't,
or chooses not to, so the appropriate action is to remove access now.

Once there is a clear policy, it's trivial to have #asfinfra or mail
to infrastructure@h.a.o to remove a spammer or user who can't and won't
follow policy after they have been reminded once or twice.  The fact that
we didn't have one (or inside information that these issues /were/ brought
up with -this- wikiuser) made it hard to conduct oversight.

* I thank everyone here, plus those beyond httpd, for all of the
  observations about wiki ecosystems.

We had a large number of responses today from the PMC, so I think we are
essentially on the same page and should now

* ask infra to reopen the wiki to general write access,
* aks infra to please revoke AskApache/their ip from the httpd wiki.

and this case is dispelled.  Would our docs@ folks try to codify Joshua's
comments and others into a policy page on the httpd wiki that users can
refer to?

Thanks all!


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