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From Tony Stevenson <>
Subject Re: [Issue] External links @ the wiki, aka pagechange wars
Date Thu, 24 May 2007 08:23:51 GMT

Paul Querna wrote:
> William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>> We have a serious issue to determine, and I've asked for a 48 hour cooldown
>> of to make a decision, and in the meantime asked that
>> the wiki become read-only for the conclusion of this decision.
>>  [XXX] Our httpd wiki is open to external resources for httpd.
>>  [  ] External httpd resources are prohibited.
>> I mean this explicitly, obviously a link to MS/Sun/RedHat about their
>> specific platform would be genuinely useful and relevant.
> I believe that Wikis must be able to link to external sites -- just like
> we do in the regular documentation.
> However, just like the the regular documentation, these links are
> generally restricted to Vendors, or other long standing and stable
> sites. (or...
He has quoted the Apache wiki etiqutte guide, in his home page on the wiki.

Wiki Eitquette --
His wiki Home Page --

In which he infers he is allowed to use external links to materials of 
his own choice. 
However the wiki-etiquette seems to be a standard set of pages shipped 
with MoinMoin, maybe they need reviewing for ASF application and either 
removing, or modifying accordingly.
> I believe we can look to wikipedia's linking policy as a good example of
> how to build a 'policy' that people can understand:
> In this case: AdSense covered personal blogs especially from people who
> do not contribute in other mediums doesn't seem like a good place to be
> linking to.
> On the revision war: I don't like it;  I do believe AskApache's link
> should be removed.  I don't blame megaspaz, he was using the tools
> available, trying to communicate with AskApache that the link was
> unacceptable.  The larger problem is that the AskApache person has
> never, AFAIK, made themselves known on the mailing list, or other
> mediums, making it impossible to communicate with them in other manners.
AskApache has had several email conversations with both myself, and 
Rich.  In which he was asked politely, but firmly to not use links to 
content on his site.
Material such as his htaccess guide were at best misleading, as well the 
possibility of plagiarism.  Sadly they do get very agressive when their 
material is modified or removed from the wiki, he has thus far refused 
to openly communicate with us, claiming "... we singled him out for 
abuse ..."

Megaspaz is a commited helper in #apache and I firmly believe he was 
doing his best to keep the wiki clean, and accurate.  We have been lucky 
so far in that we have only had two spam posts, much less than was 
originally anticiapted. 

I find it very unfortunate that it has come to this, considering Rich 
and I struggled for quite some time to have the wiki created.  When we 
first started using the wiki, the intention was for it to be a staging 
post for non docs comitters to submit works that can be then moved into 
the official docs project.  It has now grown beyond my best expectations 
with lots of good content.  As mentioned in a previous email to the docs 
list, this has now become the de facto FAQ, and is growing day on day.  
In fact we were highly praised by 3 or 4 individuals in #apache for the 
content, as it was accurate and helped them solve their issues with 
little fuss and with ease.  This is testament to those of us who strive 
to make it so, and of the content in there.

I have copies of these email conversations, and I am willing to forward 
them on to the appropriate people, rather than these lists as a whole.

This gentleman has been a source of concern for sometime with some 
regulars in #apache.  Reviewing some of his material leads us to 
conclude that he may have some very valuable input to the docs project, 
but the way in which he has handled the situation has been less than 
enthusiastic.  Unfortunately there is no simple way, or for that matter 
a policy, of preventing him from accessing the wiki.  He has already 
used 3 different user accounts to circumvent measures put in place. We 
could of course block his IP and delete hsi user account, but as we all 
know these are very easily circumvented anyway.

> On a policy: My opinion doesn't fit into a hard and fast rule, and
> rather relies upon discretion.
> -Paul
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