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From Yoshiki Hayashi <>
Subject Re: ja translation new comer
Date Sat, 06 Sep 2003 19:34:27 GMT
Tetsuya Kitahata <> writes:

>> >   <li>本ソフトウェアが組み込まれた製品の推薦あるいは宣伝用に、
>> > "Apache" 及び "Apache Software Foundation"の名称を、事前の文面での許可
>> > の無いまま使用してはなりません。apache@apache.orgにご連絡の上、
>> > 文面での許可を得るようにして下さい。</li>
>> I don't think 「組み込まれた」 is a good translation of
>> derived.  「派生した」 is more common, I think.
>> The latter sentence can give the feeling that written
>> permission is always granted.  I'd translate it as
>> 「文面での許可を得るためには に連絡してく
>> ださい。」
> Mmmm. Probably, this is just related to my Japanese sense of beauty,
> I prefer
> [apache@apache.orgにご連絡の上、文面での許可を得るようにして下さい。],
> often used in real business world (and contracts) and rather fluent
> Japanese phrase.

I still think the same as before.  It gives me the
impression that most of the time written permission is
given.  I don't care much about those contracts you
mentioned but I imagine those are used when they are willing
to grant permission.  I read the original English sentence
as "If you ever want to use the name "Apache" or "Apache
Software Foundation" to promote your products, be sure to
contact first.  Depending on the situation
we might or might not give you the permission."  Your
Japanese translation of the last sentence of section 4 is
like, "Contact and get the written
permission."  I don't think it has the same connotation.

> 「投稿」or「貢献/寄与」are very difficult to distinguish when we
> translate "CONTRIBUTION". The former makes us feel "easiness to
> contribute" and the latter rather "barriers for contribution".
> ("Apatchy spirits" taken into consideration, "投稿" might be
> more applicable in Apache Land :-)

We normally use 「貢献」 in open source software world.  The
first meaning come to my mind when I see the word 「投稿」 
is to submit something like a research paper.  You can
submit valuable information but you can also submit rubbish.
I don't think you can just send a worthless patch to a
mailing list and claim the contribution.  That's why I think
the word 「投稿」 is not an appropriate word for

> Also, these sentences are "the most sensitive" part in this
> license agreement (In other words, if we translate these lines
> precisely, the other ones could be omitted :-P), so the "easy to read"
> could be of secondary importance :-)

I can't follow you here.  What do you mean by "other ones"?
What I meant by readability is not about the word but the
syntax used in those sentences like the one in parentheses.
I don't know where you get the idea of my suggesting
imprecise translation.  You can have readable and precise
translation.  The one thing I don't know is whether it is
possible in legal documents.

> I've put "take 2" in this mail, attached, using more legal mode (L-Mode?)
> of expression :)
> Maybe, it can be more *fluent* japanese license agreement
> compared to the translations of Java 2, Standard Edition (J2SE)
> Specification :)

Well, I can say nothing about J2SE license because I haven't
read one.  I won't read Japanese translation of English
license because most of the time those are poorly

I glanced through the translation but I won't do detail
review of this one.  I'd like to stay away from legal things
as much as possible.  I cannot find obvious mistakes so I
don't mind using this as a basis for Japanese translation.

Yoshiki Hayashi

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