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From Yoshiki Hayashi <yosh...@xemacs.org>
Subject Re: ja translation new comer
Date Sat, 06 Sep 2003 19:34:27 GMT
Tetsuya Kitahata <tetsuya@apache.org> writes:

>> >   <li>本ソフトウェアが組み込まれた製品の推薦あるいは宣伝用に、
>> > "Apache" 及び "Apache Software Foundation"の名称を、事前の文面での許可
>> > の無いまま使用してはなりません。apache@apache.orgにご連絡の上、
>> > 文面での許可を得るようにして下さい。</li>
>> 
>> I don't think 「組み込まれた」 is a good translation of
>> derived.  「派生した」 is more common, I think.
>> 
>> The latter sentence can give the feeling that written
>> permission is always granted.  I'd translate it as
>> 「文面での許可を得るためには apache@apache.org に連絡してく
>> ださい。」
>
> Mmmm. Probably, this is just related to my Japanese sense of beauty,
> I prefer
> [apache@apache.orgにご連絡の上、文面での許可を得るようにして下さい。],
> often used in real business world (and contracts) and rather fluent
> Japanese phrase.

I still think the same as before.  It gives me the
impression that most of the time written permission is
given.  I don't care much about those contracts you
mentioned but I imagine those are used when they are willing
to grant permission.  I read the original English sentence
as "If you ever want to use the name "Apache" or "Apache
Software Foundation" to promote your products, be sure to
contact apache@apache.org first.  Depending on the situation
we might or might not give you the permission."  Your
Japanese translation of the last sentence of section 4 is
like, "Contact apache@apache.org and get the written
permission."  I don't think it has the same connotation.

> 「投稿」or「貢献/寄与」are very difficult to distinguish when we
> translate "CONTRIBUTION". The former makes us feel "easiness to
> contribute" and the latter rather "barriers for contribution".
> ("Apatchy spirits" taken into consideration, "投稿" might be
> more applicable in Apache Land :-)

We normally use 「貢献」 in open source software world.  The
first meaning come to my mind when I see the word 「投稿」 
is to submit something like a research paper.  You can
submit valuable information but you can also submit rubbish.
I don't think you can just send a worthless patch to a
mailing list and claim the contribution.  That's why I think
the word 「投稿」 is not an appropriate word for
contribution.

> Also, these sentences are "the most sensitive" part in this
> license agreement (In other words, if we translate these lines
> precisely, the other ones could be omitted :-P), so the "easy to read"
> could be of secondary importance :-)

I can't follow you here.  What do you mean by "other ones"?
What I meant by readability is not about the word but the
syntax used in those sentences like the one in parentheses.
I don't know where you get the idea of my suggesting
imprecise translation.  You can have readable and precise
translation.  The one thing I don't know is whether it is
possible in legal documents.

> I've put "take 2" in this mail, attached, using more legal mode (L-Mode?)
> of expression :)
> Maybe, it can be more *fluent* japanese license agreement
> compared to the translations of Java 2, Standard Edition (J2SE)
> Specification :)

Well, I can say nothing about J2SE license because I haven't
read one.  I won't read Japanese translation of English
license because most of the time those are poorly
translated.

I glanced through the translation but I won't do detail
review of this one.  I'd like to stay away from legal things
as much as possible.  I cannot find obvious mistakes so I
don't mind using this as a basis for Japanese translation.

-- 
Yoshiki Hayashi

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