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From: Michael.Schroepl@telekurs.de
To: docs@httpd.apache.org
Message-ID: <C1256C8D.00410978.00@detkw004.dnotes.telekurs.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:20:45 +0200
Subject: Re: please review translated stopping
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Hallo Kess,


> I put the german translation (xml and html) at
http://cvs.apache.org/~kess/
> Could some of the german speakers pleas review it?

I agree with Irmund - you may take your verbal translation as a
starting point but then move on to make the result become more
readable German. There is still quite a distance to go from here.

Some suggestions: (part of these may be caused by the English version)

"Stoppen"
-> "Beenden".

" Dem laufenden Apache Signale senden."
-> "Signale an den Apache-(Eltern-)Proze=DF senden".
You may omit "laufenden", as I think it is clear you cannot send
signals to a process that isn't even running. More importantly, we
should mention that it is the parent process that you signal to.

" Erstens k=F6nnen Sie den Unix-Befehl kill verwenden"
I would then expect "zweitens" to appear anywhere in the document,
and if so, then use <ul><li>...</li><li>...</li></ul> to visualize
that.
This may be a deficit of the English version, which might rather
name (and link) these two methods (with links to the explanation)
and then start describing them, instead of mixing both. Just think
a little more hypertext here, not just like you would describe it
in a strictly sequential book.

"Es gibt drei Signale, die Sie an den Elternprozess senden k=F6nnen: TE=
RM,
HUP
und USR1, die gleich beschrieben werden."
-> "Es gibt drei Signale, die Sie an den Elternprozess senden k=F6nnen =
und
die nachfolgend beschrieben werden: TERM, HUP und USR1."
And maybe even omit this part of the sentence and just place links
on each of the three signal names - this way the user can find out
_where_ they are actually explained, no matter what you tell him. ;-)

"dem httpd-Prozess zu signalieren,"
I wouldn't consider "signalieren" to be a German word. (Google is
taking my side here, although there are 60 hits worldwide. ;-)

"Nachdem Sie httpd signalisiert haben, k=F6nnen Sie seinen Fortschritt
beobachten"
... whose "Fortschritt" do you actually mean? "seinen" doesn't
bind to anything I can understand.

"Es kann einige Sekunden dauern, alle Kindprozesse komplett zu beenden"=

-> Es kann einige Sekunden dauern, bis alle Kindprozesse beendet sind"

". Alle gerade bearbeiteten Anfragen werden abgebrochen."
... how does that look for the client? (HTTP status code?)
And what about running CGI programs that may have files opened
and all that? Might at least be worth a link to describe what
effects aborting an Apache child process might cause to happen.

"die Kinder anzuweisen, nach der momentanen Anfrage zu beenden"
-> "die Kinder anzuweisen, sich nach dem Abschlu=DF der Bearbeitung
der momentanen Anfrage zu beenden"

"ersetzt der Elternprozess ihn mit"
-> "ersetzt der Elternprozess ihn durch"

"die kein USR1  f=FCr einen flie=DFenden Neustart erlauben"
-> "die kein USR1-Signal f=FCr einen flie=DFenden Neustart unterst=FCtz=
en"
I would rather add "signal" to each occurrence of something like
"USR1" ... there are more places like that in the article.
("a USR1" is considered "hacker slang" by me.)
And I don't particularly like "flie=DFenden", but I have no good
translation for "graceful" either. ("vorsichtig"/"careful"?)

"Weiterhin wird StartServers auf folgende Art und Weise beachtet"

-> "Dar=FCberhinaus wird StartServers auf folgende Art und Weise
      interpretiert"


"Daher verssucht der Code sowohl die Anzahl der Kinder "

-> "Daher versucht der Code, sowohl die Anzahl der Kinder "

Ad which "code" are we actually talking about? None was mentioned

before.


"Der Code wurde so geschrieben," ("the code was written such as ...")

... um, this seems to be an aspect of the English version that

doesn't address the inexperienced reader.

I would rather say something like "In this aspect Apache tries

to ...", i. e. tell the same story, but without requiring the

user to feel like needing to understand the underlying code

structure at this point.

"Stopping" seems to be a document that every Apache user should

have read at least once and early - so don't intimidate them too

much here.


"muss die Statustabelle (Scoreboard) behalten werden, die dazu verwende=
t
      wird,

alle Kinder quer =FCber mehrere Generationen zu verfolgen."

"behalten werden" -> "erhalten bleiben".

And rather put this to the end of the sentence, i. e. make "die

dazu verwendet wird ..." be an embedded sub-sentence here.


"Das Statusmodul benutzt au=DFerdem ein G"

sorry, I didn't understand a word here. "the status module it uses

a G" - where and how? I have never used mod_status, don't even

compile it into my Apache; so these details section might rather

be moved to the mod_status manual and only be linked from here.


"dass alle Kinder beendet sind, die in ein vor dem Neustart ge=F6ffnete=
s Log
      schreiben"

-> dass alle Kinder, die in ein vor dem Neustart ge=F6ffnetes Log schre=
iben,
      beendet sind"

(same ordering logic applies as before)


"dann k=F6nnten Sie 15 Minuten warten, bevor Sie das alte Log anfassen.=
"

-> "dann k=F6nnten Sie 15 Minuten warten, bevor Sie auf das alte Log
      zugreifen."

And then, maybe walk though the whole document and replace "Log" by

"Protokoll".


"dann wird Ihr Elternprozess nicht neustarten, sondern mit einem Fehler=

      beenden"

-> "dann wird Ihr Elternprozess nicht neu starten, sondern sich mit ein=
em
      Fehler beenden"

... there are some more positions where a "sich" is missing.

(Germans would rather write something like "terminate itself",

as it is the choice of the process to actually do that.)


"(Dies sind die Kinder, die "weich beenden", indem Sie ihre letzte Anfr=
age
      erledigen.) "

uh, translated much to verbally. We need some German notion for

"gracefully", and then use it consistently thoughout the document.


"er ist nicht in der Lage, an die Ports zu binden, an denen er lauschen=

      soll."

... I feel uncomfortable about this as well.

Maybe ", sich ... binden" would help in this place, but then I

miss a reference to some other place in the documentation where

I can find an explanation what "binding the Apache to some port"

actually means. Great place to add one more link here.


"Bevor Sie einen Neustart durchf=FChren, k=F6nnen Sie die Syntax der
Konfigurationsdateien
 mit dem Befehlszeilenargument -t =FCberpr=FCfen"

Yes, but I would rather have expected "apachectl configtest" at this

point than now teaching the users to learn the httpd options in detail.=


"Um sowohl die Syntax als auch die Semantik der Konfigurationsdateien z=
u
      pr=FCfen,

k=F6nnen Sie versuchen, httpd als nicht-root-Benutzer zu starten"

... wouldn't "root" qualify to be tagged as <code>...</code?>

Actually, I am a bit surprised to even get this option offered.

I would definitely expect _any_ number of things not working

when I start Apache as non-root while my normal installation

would require me to be root to let Apache work correctly ...

this could go as far as having "httpd" being owned by "root"

and chmod without an x bit for others, or installed to a path

where others have no read access.


"dann ist es wahrscheinlich ein Konfigurationsfehler. Der Fehler sollte=
"

-> dann liegt wahrscheinlich ein Konfigurationsfehler vor. Dieser Fehle=
r
      sollte"


"veranla=DFt den Elternprozess, wie bei TERM alle seine Kinder zu beend=
en"

-> "veranla=DFt den Elternprozess, alle seine Kinder zu beenden (wie be=
i TERM
      )"

And maybe add a link to the TERM description.


"Der Elternprozess beendet jedoch nicht. "

-> "Der Elternprozess beendet sich jedoch nicht. "


"Dann erzeugt er einen neuen Satz von Kindern und f=E4hrt damit fort,
      Zugriffe zu

bedienen."

... is it actually the _parent_ process who is serving requests - not t=
he
      children?


"dann wird Ihr Elternprozess nicht neu starten, sondern mit einem Fehle=
r
      beenden."

... again, insert a "sich" after "sondern".


"Lesen Sie oben, wie Sie dies vermeiden k=F6nnen."

"oben" seems to be another great place for an additional link.


"Vor dem Apache 1.2b9 gab es verschiedene Wettkampfsituationen (race
      conditions),

die den Neustart und die Signale beeinflu=DFt haben. (Eine einfache
      Beschreibung

einer Wettkampfsituation ist: ein zeitabh=E4ngiges Problem, wenn etwas =
zum
      falschen

Zeitpunkt geschieht, wird es sich nicht wie erwartet verhalten.)"

... I would translate it a bit more fluently:

-> "Vor der Version 1.2b9 des Apache-Servers konnten verschiedene Probl=
eme

auftreten, die durch eine unvorhergesehene Reihenfolge bestimmter
      Ereignisse

hervorherufen wurden." (You don't need to verbally translate "race
      condition"

and then explain what this could mean in German.)

And as we are in Apache 2.0 now, do we still need to cite those old 1.2=
b9

problems from about 1997? Seems to be 30 or 40 releases been out since
      then,

just counting all the 1.2 and 1.3 versions. One might bury this for v2.=
0.


"Architekturen, die ein ScoreBoardFile auf Platte verwenden, haben das
      Potential

dazu, ihre Statustabelle zu besch=E4digen"

Is there any alternative to having a ScoreBoardFile on the (hard) disk?=


(Like holding it in RAM or whatever.)

You wanted to have the link to the "ScoreBoardFile" explanation on the
      exact

word for sure, but this makes the sentence more difficult to understand=
:

Never use different notions when you mean the same thing.


I try a rather free translation:

-> "Bei Architekturen, die eine (statisch auf der Festplatte gespeicher=
te)

Statustabelle (<directive>ScoreBoardFile</directive>) verwenden, besteh=
t

die Gefahr, da=DF diese Tabelle besch=E4digt werden kann."


"Das kann zu "bind: Address already in use" ("bind: Adresse wird bereit=
s
      verwendet",

nach einem HUP) oder "long lost child came home!" ("Der verlorene Sohn =
ist
      heimgekehrt",

nach einem USR1) f=FChren"

... where am I expected to find these messages? In the Apache's error_l=
og?

On stderr of the Apache main process? On stderr of the process from whe=
re

the signal has been sent?


"Ersteres ist ein schwerer Fehler, w=E4rend letzteres lediglich bewirkt=
, dass
      der

Server einen Eintrag in der Statustabelle verliert"

So the first one is a severe error ... uh, and what am I supposed to do=


in this situation? You tell me three lines later, after talking about

some less important but different things ... maybe it is only a psycho-=


logical issue, but I would rather reverse the order of these to message=
s

and the explanations. Or even use some unordered list with two <li> to

treat them separately and visualize this information more clearly.


"Alle Archtitekturen"

-> "Alle Architekturen"


"Er kann nach dem Lesen einer Anfrage aber vor dem Lesen eines
      Anfrage-Headers enden"

... who is this "er" here anyway? I cannot detect any reference for it.=


(And "aber" requires a comma being inserted in front of it.)


"Es existiert ein Fix, das zu sp=E4t f=FCr 1.2 entdeckt wurde"

What do I use this information for? Does an Apache 2 user still have

to bother whether some fix has been detected "too late for Apache 1.2"?=


Besides, this line sounds very negative. Rather say "der nachtr=E4glich=


f=FCr die Version 1.2 erstellt wurde" ... and don't use "fix" when your=


reader wants you to say "korrigierte Programmversion" or something like=


that. Anyway, I want to read which version is working (because it con-

tains this fix), not which ancient version from 1997 is broken ...


"Theoretisch ist es kein Problempunkt,"

-> "Theoretisch sollte das kein Problem darstellen,"

And "KeepAlive" looks like another great location for one more link.


"In der Praxis scheint es keines von beiden zu beeinflussen"

... I don't get it, as I cannot locate any reference for "es". and

even interpreting "beiden" isn't quite clear.


"und der Client bl=E4tterte durch die Site ohne kaputte Bilder oder lee=
re
      Dokumente

zu erhalten."

Add a comma after "Site", and then maybe think about rewriting the

whole sentence. (Probably even in the English version ...)


Viele Gr=FC=DFe

      Michael
=