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From Michael.Schro...@telekurs.com
Subject Antwort: German translation
Date Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:00:33 GMT

Hi Kess,


> (apache.kess-net.de is configured to send the german pages to all
browsers
> acepting at least the languages de and en.)

could you please explain the reason for the "AND" in this condition?

By the way, you explanation does not apply to reality: Your server is
serving these pages for the language English, although they contain the
German translation and although they have the additional extension ".de"
- why? Delete all defined languages from your browser configuration and
you can see it yourself. At the moment, I have only "English" defined
in my browser's config and still get the German translation; if I remove
"English" and add "German" I get
     Not Acceptable
     An appropriate representation of the requested resource
/upgrading.html
     could not be found on this server.

     Available variants:
     upgrading.html.de, type text/html, language en

And there is a
     [an error occurred while processing this directive]
message inside the "features" document.

> So I ask the other german speakers at this list to take peek at it and
tell
> me, if you like it or if I have to do some changes.

It depends upon what is the exact goal to be achieved.

I haven't yet tried to lay English and German version texts side by
side (which I would have to do if I wanted to say something about the
translation of Apache semantics), but from the lines I have read I
feel you are translating very strictly word by word. (Which might be
very well advised for the first version of the translation, but not
my ultimative goal for the final result.)
If I would do such a translation, I would at least dare to rearrange
the order of words inside the sentences, to make the German result
sound a bit more fluently. As an example: (from "upgrade")

     "Sie sollten weitere Informationen entweder unter Neue Funktionen oder
      in den src/CHANGES-Dateien finden."

would then be

     "Weitere Informationen sollten Sie entweder unter Neue Funktionen
      oder in den src/CHANGES-Dateien finden."

Another example (from "features"):
     Die überladene <Directory "proxy:...">-Anweisung wird nicht mehr
     unterstützt.

would then be

     Die überladene Anweisung <Directory "proxy:..."> wird nicht mehr
     unterstützt.

(By the way, shouldn't all directives be tagged in <code>...</code>?
And the same applies to "./configure --help" and "/sk/pkg/apache" from
the "install" document.)

In some cases this might even require some more rearrangement of the
words. Example (from "upgrading"):

     Wenn Sie ein Serververhalten so ähnlich wie möglich dem Verhalten
     des Apache 1.3 wünschen

would then be

     Wenn Sie ein Serververhalten wünschen, welches demjenigen von Apache
      1.3 möglist ähnelt,

An even better example is (from "install"):
     Zum Beispiel können zum Aktivieren vom mod_dav und mod_info beide
     benutzt werden
          ./configure --enable-dav --enable-info
     oder äquivalent
          ./configure --enable-modules="dav info"

which would rather be

     Zum Beispiel können zum Aktivieren vom mod_dav und mod_info die
      beiden Methoden
          ./configure --enable-dav --enable-info
     bzw.
          ./configure --enable-modules="dav info"
     benutzt werden.

Also, in a construct like "müssen autoconf und libtool installiert haben
und müssen" you would not duplicate the verb in German, while you would
need to do it in English.

Besides this, some commas inherited from the English versions would
rather not be used in these places in a native German version of the
text, while some others are missing.
The same applies to the usage of hyphens, which would improve read-
ability a lot for the German version.

Some translations like "zeigen verläßlichere Ausgaben an" (from "install")
might cause problems because the notion "Ausgaben" might have several
meanings in German, and especially in the software context I would
rather think of "output" than of "version" (which you surely intended
to say).

All of this might well be done in future versions of your documentation,
but none of this is very difficult to be done in the first version, as
long as you are aware of if. So I would suggest refining the already
existing documents as much as possible and thus establish a routine for
the further translation process.

Some minor typos are also there, like "Ausschließlich ie Listen-Anweisung"
or "Unterstützung fü alle Windows NT" or "bozigen werden" or "auch einen
Meldung erhalten" or "ist der Modul-Bezeichnern der" or "Wählt das MPM NAME
".
And you might rather avoid words like "rein" and "raus", even if this
might require more complicated formulations in some cases.
You might define some format in which you prefer to receive suggestions
for changes, so that you may concentrate on translating the semantics
and efficiently 'outsource' tasks like spell-checking.
If more than one person would try to do such a job, it might help if
you add some version numbering in form of <meta> tags to your online
version, so that both sides know which version their notes refer to.

As for the content, I didn't quite get what a "pre-hook" is, from only
reading the German document versions. Most other things were clear to
me. But maybe you could supply some translation for notions like
"tarball", which might at least look strange for German-only readers.
On the other hand, I didn't get at once what you mean with "Ablageort",
which might be your notion for the installation target directory.

Maybe it would help (all translators!) to have some document telling
them what the primary goal of any translation should be and in how
far they are 'allowed' to express things most appropriately in their
own language.
Such a document might be the result of a dialog between a translator
and the maintenance crew of the English documentation, as they both
will have new experiences during this process.
(I did experience the same when I translated some search engine's GUI
one year ago - I had lots of discussions with the author of the eng-
lish version, and we both learned a lot from that, as during trans-
lation you often try to find the notion which describes the semantics
most exactly and then find that a different notion in the original
language might have been better.)
But again, I know that I am very formalistic in this area, and a fan
of rule systems in general ... it might just not pay to explicitly
write down these kinds of rules.

And then, for something totally different.
A translator is reading the original documentation much more thorough-
ly than most users and might point out details where a different for-
mulation or additional information in the english docs might improve
their understanding. Example (from "new features"):
     Dieses Modul implementiert die HTTP Distributed Authoring and
Versioning
     (DAV) Spezifikation,

where I would love to see a hyperlink to explain what this "DAV" thingy

is. (Maybe just an external link to some RFC.) The same applies to

      (jetzt auf Basis der Perl's Regular Expression Syntax)

where I would love to find a hyperlink to read more about this, espe-

cially because this is _not_ Apache specific and may well _not_ be part

of the Apache docs.

The "features" document looks to me as if a hyperlink on _every_ module

name might improve navigation a lot. The function of this page seems to

inform about new and interesting features, so why not make it easier to

directly jump right into the corresponding module descriptions?

The same applies to all the "Core-Erweiterungen:" entries - if there is

some article about this topic, then please point to it directly from the

"new features" page. I think this page should contain about 20-30 links.



Regards, Michael



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