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From Jorge Schrauwen <>
Subject Re: Some ramblings on httpd config
Date Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:42:37 GMT
Well lets summerize:
We seem to agree some sort of change to the configuration system is needed?
We don't all seem to be it should be a program like language like lua.
Httpd devs seem to like lua so it has the highest chance of being implemented.

But I think I'll speak for most people helping in users@ and #httpd
that whatever is chose or changed should be documented and also be
somewhat idiot proof?

I've also noticed this sort of discussion has appeared a few times in the past.
Maybe it's also time to actually do something with this discussion
instead of letting it slowly fade?


On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Bertrand Mansion <> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Jorge Schrauwen
> <> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:07 PM, Akins, Brian <> wrote:
>>> On 6/3/09 2:45 PM, "Jorge Schrauwen" <> wrote:
>>>> I have to admit lua would be more flexible but I think most server
>>>> admins have atleast come into contact with XML... while not
>>>> necessarily the case with lua.
>>> XML with conditionals. Please, make it stop...
>>> I think we are going to have to choose one way (the current way, lua,
>>> something else) and just go with it.
>>> Nice thing about lua is that the configuration is the runtime "script."
>>> There is no external and internal representation of things. (Well, not
>>> exactly, but close...).  Lua is fast enough to just run every request - most
>>> of the "hard" stuff is still in C.
>> I think going with a language "X" based config system will just give
>> us more horrible questions and make it even harder to trouble shoot
>> things like request X works but request Y doesn't.
>> You might as well provide a building block method and the config c
>> based, will scare off the more casual users just like lua and only
>> allow the oncs who know what they are doing write a decent
>> configuration. (ok that last one is maybe a bit over exaggerated but
>> going pure program language based is a very big learn before usage
>> curve)
> Lua is already used exclusively as a configuration language in many
> different softwares.
> It was actually first designed to be a configuration language and it
> was very successful in this area.
> "...To make a long story short, yes, we did develop Lua to solve a
> particular problem. Although we developed Lua in an academic
> institution, Lua was never an "academic language", that is, a language
> to write papers about. We needed an easy-to-use configuration
> language, and the only configuration language available at that time
> (1993) was Tcl. Our users did not consider Tcl an easy-to-use
> language. So we created our own configuration language..."
> --
> Lua can look like this :
> DocumentRoot = "/htdocs"
> ServerName = ""
> VirtualHosts = {
>  "" = { DocumentRoot = "/" }
> }
> It doesn't have to look like code. If you don't want to learn
> programming, you don't have to because Lua code can look like a
> configuration. I think that the current Apache conf style could be
> easily converted into Lua syntax without having to rely on anything
> too fancy for non-programmers.
> But if you need power, then Lua probably offers the cleanest and
> fastest available in scripting languages. So you can get the best of
> both worlds :)
> --
> Bertrand Mansion
> Mamasam

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