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From Rasmus Lerdorf <>
Subject Re: story posted
Date Wed, 05 Feb 2003 17:56:29 GMT
> What I think is useful information to people who want PHP+Apache-2.0 is:
> a) is PHP not production ready with Apache 2.0 because it was not high 
> enough priority for PHP to be tested?

That is a big part of it.  The fact that the thread-safety of many
third-party libraries that can be linked into a PHP (or mod_perl) setup is
questionable at best has not made us rush out to support Apache 2.  If
there was some compelling end-user feature that people clamoured for, it
would be a different story, but as it is, Apache2 is just a headache for
us.  People would have to run in prefork mode so neither the architecture
nor the performance are compelling arguments to switch for the end user.  
>From our perspective, the additional effort required to field all these
bug reports about Apache2+PHP+Worker doing weird and wonderful things
makes it quite a PITA and we thus push people toward 1.3.  Thread-safety
issues are hard to debug and causes a lot of indecipherable and mostly
useless bug reports.  RedHat is currently my least favourite company due 
to the added support email load they have caused me.  And yes, I know, 
"Just tell them to use prefork".  But with Apache-1.3 there is no Worker 
mpm and most of the time when you ask a user which mpm they are using, the 
response is a big fat, "duh, mpm?".

> b) is PHP not production ready with Apache 2.0 because Apache 2.0 must 
> be fixed before such a thing is even possible?
> I see more comments implying b) than a).  As such, it seems that anybody 
> that wants to hack PHP to work better with 2.0 is wasting their time.

I don't think b) outweighs a) here.  The issues in a) is the demotivator 
and b) is just the final nail in the coffin.  If we were motivated enough 
we would work through the API stuff and figure out how to better get PHP 
aligned to the current filter approach.  It's not like the Apache 1.3 API 
is super clean either.  We just know it pretty well and PHP was built up 
around it almost from the beginning.

I guess the real issue here is not even the end users as much as the
developers themselves.  Apache 1.3 was historically written by webmasters
for webmasters running realworld servers.  When/if Apache2 reaches a point
where we, as developers, switch to using it for ourselves, PHP support
will arrive in full force.  As it is, it is just one server on the long
list of servers somewhat supported by PHP.


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