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From "William A. Rowe, Jr." <>
Subject Re: 2.1 Fallout; httpd v.s. httpd-2.0
Date Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:30:21 GMT
At 09:25 AM 11/25/2002, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:

>... I won't be too frustrated when folks start rehashing the decision
>for the next year.  You may as well also start venting over how poor the 
>old 1.3 is doing (but don't go fixing it, that would take away all the fun 
>of griping about it :-)

"You" was a *really* bad choice of words here.  The point I tried to make
and failed, and turned anyone off from reading the rest of the post.  That
was not a specific "you" person, that was the "you" amount "folks".
The closing sarcasm... if you want to see bug fixes, write bug fixes and
commit them, was a reaction to my frustration with the overwhelming
negativity towards new development, and went over the line for the second
time in one paragraph.  Again, I'm sorry I offended.

It's up to folks to work and improve 1.3 and 2.0 if that's their bag.  And
more power to them all.  I'm game for improving 2.0.  I even have a 1.3
patch up my sleeve every once in a while.

There is one minor difference between the 1.3->2.0 and 2.0->2.2 direction.
Nobody is planning on invaliding all of the 2.0 efforts with 2.2.  Sure, some
directives might change, modules might change, etc.  But we will still have
autoconf/libtool, the folks who could build and run 2.0 will be able to build
and run 2.2, etc.  So sooner or later, yea, 2.2 will take over from 2.0.

2.0 is so radically different than 1.3 that the migration's been painful.
Not so with 2.0->2.2.  We maintain 1.3 because 1.3 users have no
alternative.  Since 2.2 will be a better Apache 2 than 2.0, we will expect
users to move in that direction and begin a security-patches only sort of
approach at some point.  But not for a while.

>Which takes us to the question raised by the three of you.  It's Apache.
>You scratch Your own itch.  If that's maintenance (as Jeff, myself, and
>many others including yourselves keep persisting in) then that's cool.
>If that itch is new development, such as auth refactoring, async overhaul
>or factoring out the filesystem, then that's cool too.

I hope that comment didn't offend.  "persisting" was a teasing comment
and I applied it to myself as well.  Since the prior paragraph was so
inflammatory, I'm sure some folks took that word wrong too.  Sorry, again.

And finally, if all that weren't enough...

>Participate how you like; that's the point of *this* Apache project.  Even
>the backseat drivers are welcome here :-)

At 03:31 PM 11/25/2002, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>At 3:16 PM -0600 11/25/02, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>>At 02:54 PM 11/25/2002, you wrote:
>>>jim         2002/11/25 12:54:59
>>>  Modified:    .        Tag: APACHE_2_0_BRANCH STATUS
>>>  Log:
>>>  It appears that I am "unworthy" to have an opinion...
>>How do you mean?  Don't read between the lines in my comments;
>>backseat drivers *are* welcome, and you are one of the few who
>>actively pursue 1.3 bugs [which is goodness!]
>I think calling *any* developer (whether they produce massive amounts
>of code because they have the time or job that allows it; or someone that
>has almost no time, but still finds the time to code what they
>can and track down what they can) a "backseat driver" is incredibly

First, across much of the Apache codebase I call myself a backseat driver.
We all have code we merely peek at, and other parts of the code that we 
understand inside out.  It was not not ment to be pejorative, I'm certainly
not counting who's been driving, and who's riding shotgun.  Some folks have
only time to offer observations and virtually -0- time to contribute code, and
that alone is a cool contribution.  We have too many keen minds for only the 
'active committers' to pay attention to the project and its direction, and offer 
their feedback.

But I see now how insulting that comment came across, and I'm sorry.
After the paragraphs leading up to it, this was the icing on the cake.

I most humbly apologize to all those who I've offended.  And now, I will
shut up since Jeff is doing a much better job than I expressing opinions
in a well thought-out and non-confrontational manner.


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