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From "Brad Nicholes" <BNICHO...@novell.com>
Subject Re: cvs commit: apache-1.3/src/main http_main.c
Date Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:24:42 GMT
>as os-specific flags (e.g. -w to keep the console open, or -W to send
it 
>off to the logger window before closing?)

If needed, -W and -w sounds fine to me for Apache2.  Although our
default would probably be "-w".  Do we really need to worry about future
parameter conflicts with 1.3?  Since it appears that the official word
is that 1.3 is in maintenance mode now, the likelihood of -E/-e being
backported to 1.3 is slim to none.

Brad


Brad Nicholes
Senior Software Engineer
Novell, Inc., a leading provider of Net business solutions
http://www.novell.com 

>>> wrowe@rowe-clan.net Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:58:59 AM >>>
At 10:35 AM 6/5/2002, you wrote:
>    The reason for the "-e" parameter was to solve the following
problem
>on NetWare.  If you are not familiar with the NetWare console...

I am [did that too for about 10 years :-]

>just remember that NetWare is not a general purpose OS and does not
have a
>command shell like most other OS's.  By default starting Apache on
>NetWare creates a new console screen that displays the standard
Apache
>startup information.  If anything goes wrong before the error_log is
>opened, the error message is displayed on the Apache console screen
and
>the screen is left open until a user hits a key.

OK... this is -exactly- what the win32 -w flag is for, holds the
console open
until the user dismisses it [actually it has a timeout of 30 seconds.]

>This allows the user
>to view the error message and take action as you would expect.  The
>downside is that NetWare is intended to be a headless OS, which means
>that the user should not have to interact directly with the console
to
>resolve a problem.

That's why a timeout plus the wait-for-user.  I figure 95% of failures
are on
reconfiguration anyways, with an operator trying to restart with
changes.

>In addition, if Apache is started at boot time, much
>like a Windows service, holding a screen open on an error condition
>stops the server from booting completely (a long story but mostly due
to
>the fact that the console display is single threaded). Therefore
NetWare
>needed a way to allow a screen to be opened, not hold the console
screen
>open on an error condition and still display the error message to the
>user.  If we just forced the console screen to close then the error
>message would be lost.  So the "-e" parameter simply tells Apache to
>output to the logger screen on NW6 or the main console on NW5.1
before
>forcing the screen to close.
>      After having explained the reason why NetWare needs the "-e"
>parameter, I think the real issue is  not the functionality but the
>parameter definition (ie. the use of "-e" itself).  The parameter
itself
>is not really important to me.  It can be anything.  What is
important
>is the functionality.  If we need to change "-e" to something else, I
>have not problem with that.  This same functionality has not been
>implemented in Apache2 only because I have not determined yet it we
have
>the same problem.  The infrastructure under Apache2 is completely
>different from Apache 1.3 so holding the console screen open on an
error
>condition does not seem to cause the same problem of stopping the
>machine from booting if Apache2 is loaded as a service at boot time
and
>an error occurs.

Cool.  Since this option, too, redirects to another window, what about
-w 
and -W
as os-specific flags (e.g. -w to keep the console open, or -W to send
it 
off to the
logger window before closing?)

I might even hack a -W to open the event logger window on failure, sort
of like
your new option.

Or choose whatever else, I'm just concerned that we avoid likely future

conflicts
as we extend the platform-shared options to httpd.  I don't intend to
backport
-e/-E to 1.3 [although I wouldn't argue if someone else proffered the
patch]
so this wasn't an immediate conflict.  I just noticed it trying to
track 
down why
apache 1.3 was broken on win32.

Bill




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