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From Justin Erenkrantz <>
Subject Re: Apache 2.0.27 and 2.0.28 RPM available
Date Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:12:51 GMT
On Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 08:24:39PM +1100, Daniel Stone wrote:
> If the Debian libtool didn't work flawlessly for every platform we have,
> we wouldn't have it in, it's that simple.

We (as the Apache Group) can't make the assumption that every 
OS knows what they are doing.  What you guys should probably do 
is *always* run ./buildconf to ensure that your libtool version 
overrides whatever one we distribute.  We're going to try to make 
the decision that is best across all platforms - which is to 
recommend using the one we provide in the release tarball.  In your 
situations (both you and Henri), your libtool is known to be 
better - so, just do ./buildconf and it'll magically be identical 
to the one you have in your path.  =)

> Hm, well I just shang it on 443 regardless. Should add some Debconf
> stuff to make this configurable. But at this stage, if the user says yes
> to SSL support and then enables that host, SSL support is almost up and
> happening - all the need to do is generate the certs (must write a
> script to do this).

Very nice feature.  However, Debconf isn't portable (is it?).  =)

Ideally, we *would* have it so that we can have them make choices
at compile-time, but there really isn't a nice way to do that.
So, we rely on docs.

> > It may be worthwhile to step back and determine what the
> > optimal layout is for each of you and see if we can support
> > that out-of-the-box via config.layout.  -- justin
> Feel free to talk to me about this - I'd be only too happy to respond.
> :)

Okay.  Here are the config.layout fields:
    prefix, exec_prefix, bindir, sbindir, libexecdir, mandir,
    sysconfdir, datadir, installbuilddir, errordir, iconsdir, htdocsdir,
    manualdir, cgidir, includedir, localstatedir, runtimedir,
    logfiledir, proxycachedir

Geesh - that's a lot.  What *can't* you do with that?  I think 
the biggest problem is that we aren't doing enough with this 
provided information in the configuration file.  I bet that the 
Makefiles will copy it everywhere correctly, but that httpd.conf 
and the support scripts - like apachectl - have no knowledge where 
things are.  That leads to a poor default configuration on our

Now for the question that Henri brought up - is ServerRoot 
sysconfdir?  I think we could make a case that ServerRoot is 
prefix, but that httpd itself would know to look in 
sysconfdir/httpd.conf for the config file and that we teach
httpd.conf about the various location of things (like iconsdir,
htdocsdir, etc, etc, etc).

So, what's wrong with that?  We have a bunch of relative paths flying 
around in our config file all keyed off of ServerRoot.  That's nice
if you use our layout (which has everything as a descendant of 
prefix), but horrific once you think differently than us.  So, maybe
httpd-std.conf needs to be redone to handle all of the layout stuff.

This gets me down a road that sounds like someone with commit 
access may veto.  So, I'll leave it at this for now and try to 
solicit feedback.

Just to give you an idea of my ideal configuration:
./configure --prefix=/pkg/httpd-2.0.28 \
    --sysconfdir=/etc/pkg/httpd-2.0.28 \
To me this means:
- All binaries and anything that is read-only is located in /pkg.
- All configuration files are located in /etc.
- All error docs, icons, htdocs are located in /var.

Everything magically ends up in the right directory and is 
installed correctly.  The config file knows that the right stuff
is in the right directory.  FWIW, I'd also state that logs ends 
up in localstatedir.  

It almost seems as if we have too much flexibility.  No way am 
I going to type this:

./configure --prefix=/pkg/httpd-2.0.28 \
    --sysconfdir=/etc/pkg/httpd-2.0.28 \
    --localstatedir=/var/pkg/httpd-2.0.28 \
    --iconsdir=/var/pkg/httpd-2.0.28/icons \
    --errordir=/var/pkg/httpd-2.0.28/errors \
    --htdocsdir=/var/pkg/httpd-2.0.28/htdocsdir \
    --logfiledir=/var/pkg/httpd-2.0.28/logs \

Yes, I can do this.  But, that's way too specific and as an
admin, I think we need better default groupings (i.e. localstatedir
consists of X, Y, Z).  -- justin

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