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From "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@covalent.net>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] ApacheHTTPD -- WIN32
Date Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:28:54 GMT
From: "Mladen Turk" <mturk@mappingsoft.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 12:28 PM


> Sorry if I'm pain in the ass, 

Not

> but...

> > From: William A. Rowe, Jr. [mailto:wrowe@covalent.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 9:13 PM
> 
> > > IMO that will Win9xConHook made unnecessary, and the NT+ platforms will
> > > benefit from the concept.
> >
> > Win9xConHook is a _hack_ for an unsupported platform.  I'd sooner dump
> > 9x than attack the problem in this manner.  We have fundemental issues
> > when we 'run-as-service' in 9x that Win9xConHook neatly wraps.  If it's
> > broke, we aught to fix it.  But we've critically broken CGI's many times
> > before trying to get this right.  What we've got, works, well.
> 
> I understand this, after all we are building a server, but don't you think
> that the time has come to make a decision to either drop the WIN9x from
> httpd, or still wasting like you said 200+ hours trying to solve unsolvable.

Agreed, we aren't dumping it, I just don't care to reinvent the wheel again,
or help to maintain such a reinvention.  That said...

> > > I mean by that if the apache is run as service, it could call the
> > > ApacheHTTPD as 'redirector' for I/O. That way we could override the SSL
> > > password entry for example pushing some dialog box, or see the current
> > > server status.
> > >
> > Please review Oct 99 forward for new-httpd and take a look at the history,
> > so at least we aren't wasting time repeating prior discussion.
> 
> Didn't found something like the thing I had in my mind. Perhaps I was
> unclear enough.

Search for messages from J J Ke

> What I was thinking is to put some sort of a hooks in it that will allow one
> to get into the 'run' process itself. I'm not talking here about the modules
> dealing with the MIME or stuffs like that but rather the status of the
> apache itself. One of the simplest applications could be the ApacheHTTPD

Ok.  Forgetting (for the moment) stdin/stdout (which are goodness, as is)...
you want to be able to query to the process.

First, forget about trying to 'interact' with console apache entirely.  I'm
very temped to drop that support once the Service on Win9x is sufficiently
reliable.  Well, 'drop' is a harsh word, but really the console is just for
things like apache -t, testbench, etc.  It isn't ment to be the launch point
it serves as today for many users.

SO... I strongly suggest you look at extending that global hook to add a 
'query' function to Apache, that can do precisely what the WinNT SCM provides 
for us, only under 9x.  That way, we can ask, and have answered, all the usual 
questions (starting?  running?  dying?  not responding?)

Second, we stop and revisit the scoreboard.  Anything beyond those basic Q's
should be answered from shared memory.  Acceptable?  It means I need to jump
on your shmem offering first ;)

> I was inspired to the concept looking at the rotatelogs util. We are
> communicating to that app using pipes and stuffs instead of using something
> like simple hook inside the apache that will intercept all the log
> directives, and if someone wants even send an email to the admin if there is
> more than a 100 requests for a particular page in a minute. Of course one
> could build a rotatelogs clone that deals with such a scenario, but imagine
> the chain of such utilities and the benefit.

I don't see how this has to do with console v.s. win app?  Yes, tee is a wonderful
thing, more folks should use it.

> The ApacheHTTPD proposal IMO was the lead-in thought in the way that the app
> itself would behave in the following way:
> 
> 4. registers for the status signal (quit, restart, whatever...)

That's what I suggest we do with Win9xConHook, answer one more WM_USER message
(registered with the RegisterMessage api) of "What are you up to?"

So you don't need to deal with replacing what works (stdio), but focus on
"what questions can't we get answers to, today?".  Answering a WM_ message with
'hey, I'm alive and running!', getting the pid and grabbing its scoreboard would
solve the 80/20 very quickly.

We aren't replacing stdio in Apache 2.0 :-)

Bill



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