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From "William A. Rowe, Jr." <>
Subject RE: The ?last? 1.3.15/Win32 discrepancy
Date Wed, 20 Dec 2000 03:15:54 GMT
> From: Greg Stein []
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 8:34 PM
> Agreed. I'm somewhat dismayed by the large Win32 changes for 1.3 that are
> occurring. That's a lot of revamping, with the potential for making 1.3 even
> more wobbly out in the field (I'm sure it works great for OtherBill, but
> what about our users?).
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 05:29:46PM -0800, wrote:
> > 
> > I am +1 for 2.0 -0 for 1.3.  I really think we should just leave 1.3 alone
> > as much as possible right now.  I would like to see the byterange problems
> > solved, but everything else should be left for 2.0 IMO.  Apache 1.3 on
> > Win32 will never be a great solution.

Ok, two votes from the non-win32 crowd...


Hmmm... so I'm scratching my itch, and not scratching yours?

This particular code doesn't touch your code path.  I know Win32 stability,
and as you don't, this puts you in the uncomfortable position of allowing 
in code that you don't understand.  Bill n' Bill{r} can only review so much
code.  I entrust W. Stoddard to know his stuff about winsock (and he proves it
often).  The win9x Console hack is my ball of wax.  Either way, I've had to 
rely on my 'network' of Win32 testers, culled from the lists and bugs reporting 
systems, to assure this stuff works on someone but OtherBill's PC.

Win32 is near rock stable.  It had two new glitches.  The code I've introduced 
for 1.3.15 doesn't carry those sorts of new risks.  As one example, loosing the
(hidden) console was a horrible thing that anyone following the list back in 
12/99 should have caught (JJK did a great writeup about the issue.)  The other
side, backslashes, goes to show how my testers 'get it' about the paths.
[Interesting observation, the only consistant problem seemed to be with JServ, 
which didn't follow the '/' syntax on installation.]  1.3.15 puts both back 
where they have to be, and cleans up other cgi execution issues.  I plead
ignorance that I'd never seen the one and only KB article that addressed the
pipes and child console window issues.

All of that code is indirectly applicable to 2.0.  None of it a straight-line 
conversion due to the MPMs and The Bills(tm) mutual desire to keep Win32 hidden 
in mpm_winnt :-)  So 2.0 benefits if the solution works, it's a waste of a few
hours of my time to bridge it between the trees.

Yes... I can build on Linux and run the Apache server -I- want, but that's not
my usual haunt.  Yes... 2.0 resolves massive compatibility issues for Win32.
Yes... 1.3.15 isn't being raced anymore.  But no, 1.3.15 isn't a dead horse.
It will be out there for years.  I know neither of you two like that, and I do
agree 2.0 is a superior solution.  But we have many folks out there running 
1.3.15, needing solutions (or having to hack their own) around things we do 
very, very easily with Unix in 1.3.15.

These two last changes (module names, config/status of service opts) I believe
are needed in 1.3.15 to put the tree to bed, from Win32's own perspective.  
Any testers that have been running my changes want to pipe up here... feel free.
1.3.14 worked for a whole lot more folks than OtherBill, now 1.3.15 already 
resolves those few new issues that were introduced, and would bring Win32 to 
parity with Unix in terms of flexibility.

There have been a number of times over the past two months that the Win32 
build of the 2.0 tree was so totally broken I just walked away.  I try to
be very cautious of the 'other' sources, and when I grep, I actually take
the time to search *.in, unix directories, etc, even though they are totally
irrelevant to the Win32 build.  It would be nice to see more folks take the 
same time to include *.dsp,def,hw as well.  I'd be happier fixing a broken
.hw file where someone 'tried' to be thorough, than chasing down something
that was ignored by the original committer in haste.

So if I was productive scratching my itch to see a clean 1.3.x Win32, then
that's what it is.  I'm off to 2.0 after tommorow morning ... to catch up 
with the rest of you.  Maybe implement .asp on 2.0 - we'll see where my next
itch is.  For those with no technical justification other than 'not my itch',
this sort of '-0 for 1.3.15' is nothing but irritating.


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