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Subject Re: htdocs?
Date Sun, 19 Nov 2000 00:25:23 GMT

> > I completely disagree.  Have you noticed that 99% of the changes to the
> > docs are from non-coders.  That is very good and very bad.  It is good
> > because the docs are getting updated and bad because it shows that the
> > coders feel they don't need to deal with the docs.
> And what is your point? Say it is bad all you like, but it is not going to
> change how people work. Either the coders will do the docs, or they won't.
> One or two repositories isn't going to change it.

The point is that developers aren't writing docs.  I wish we could know
how many developers were actually downloading the docs, but we can't
really know that.

> > BTW, I just did another FRESH checkout from CVS, and I'm still getting
> > files in the htdocs directory.
> What files? I didn't see any in my look through apache-2.0/htdocs/. If you
> can list them, then we can fix it.

You won't see them in apache-2.0/htdocs.  The problem is the &htdocs-2.0
in the modules file.  That checks out part of the htdocs directory
automatically when you check out Apache 2.0.  The problem is that the
files it checks out are incomplete.  You already have my .cvsrc file, now
execute these commands with that .cvsrc:

cvs -d co apache-2.0
cd apache-2.0/htdocs/manual/mod
ls mpmt_pthread.html

You won't find that file.  But, if you check out the htdocs directory
yourself, it's there.  If after you do a checkout, you go into the htdocs
directory and do a cvs update, you will get a lot of errors as well.

> You have identified three problems that I know of:
> 1) some EmptyDir thing. we don't know if this is because of the htdocs split
>    or some temporary inconsistency in one of the CVS repositories or pserver
>    or whatever.

I don't use pserver, so I doubt that is involved at all.

Considering I was able to do a "cvs update" as soon as I removed the
htdocs dir, and in another repository that I hadn't checked out htdocs, I
tend to believe this is related to the htdocs split.  However I am willing
to concede that this was most likely due to my checking the entire
httpd-docs-2.0 repository.  I have just duplicated this problem exactly by

cvs -d co apache-2.0
cd apache-2.0
rm -Rf htdocs
cvs -d co -d htdocs httpd-docs-2.0
cvs update

This gives the errors:

Warning: Remote host denied X11 forwarding, perhaps xauth program could
not be run on the server side.
cvs server: failed to create lock directory in repository
`/home/cvs/CVSROOT/Emptydir': Permission denied
cvs server: failed to obtain dir lock in repository
cvs [server aborted]: read lock failed - giving up

Saying that I can't checkout the full repository is a bit bogus, but I am
willing to accept this as a limitation.

> 2) checking out httpd-docs-2.0 directory doesn't work. easy resolution:
>    check out httpd-docs-2.0/htdocs

Checking out the whole repository does work.  However you can't check it
out in your development tree and still update the tree.

> 3) files still exist somewhere in apache-2.0/htdocs. name them, and we'll
>    get them deleted properly.

They have been delete from Apache, however the modules file has us
checking them out anyway.  We tried removing this once, and that was
veto'ed, because people said that developers need to actually download the
docs.  I happen to agree that forcing developers to download the docs is
100% correct.  However, currently we force developers to download partial
docs only, which is completely bogus.

This whole thing came about because I was trying to look at the
mpmt_pthread.html file that was committed the other day.  When I looked in
the htdocs directory that is automatically downloaded it wasn't
there.  When I did a cvs update to try to get it, I got errors.  When I
removed the directory and checked out a new version, I screwed up (in this
case an easy thing to do, too easy IMHO) and checked out too much.

> Each of these has a specific resolution. None are permanent problems due to
> the split.

I have just given you a VERY specific analysis of the problem.  This is
completely reproducable and it is exactly what people have been
complaining about ever since the split was made.  If you know how to fix
these issues, then please do so.  If you don't know how to fix them, then
please remove your veto so that Roy can fix them by moving the htdocs
back into the source tree.

BTW, the way I read what Roy was going to do, it didn't keep people from
contributing to just the docs, it just solved the problem in a different


Ryan Bloom               
406 29th St.
San Francisco, CA 94131

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