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From Rodent of Unusual Size <Ken.C...@Golux.Com>
Subject Re: PLEASE READ: Filter I/O
Date Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:57:40 GMT
Randy Terbush wrote:
> I half expected this issue to be challenged, but I must say that I am
> particularly surprised that IBM has a problem with this.

Bzzzt.  I don't know about Bill, but I'm speaking as myself, not
as an IBM representative.

> To be completely candid, I find it much more "distasteful" to listen
> to the IBM marketing droids tell me "they drive Apache development"
> and that "Apache is their open source project".

So do I, and I do my best to correct them every chance I get.
I hope you complain about them too; the more they hear it,
the better the chances they'll get it right.  I hope.

However, I'm not responsible for what IBM marketroids say.  Ryan
*is* responsible for what he submits.  Was the addition of the
paragraph in question at Covalent's instigation?

> Guys. What is wrong with giving attribution that is completely
> accurate, in source files where it really matters?

1. It's messy.  We've got a lot of new files coming in here, from
   lots of people.  I don't want to see such dribble attached to
   every new file.  Do you?
2. It's unnecessarily verbose.  I have no real problem with something
   like 'Originally written by Ryan Bloom, Covalent Technologies,'
   but this isn't attribution, it's flag-waving.  IMHO.  And if it's
   in an Apache source file, it was *obviously* given to the project,
   without having to say anything.  I don't care if it was an exclusive
   gift or not; give it to anyone you please.  I don't need to know
   it was exclusive, and the source file doesn't either.
3. It's potentially misleading.  By saying it was 'exclusively' given
   to the Foundation, a tiny possibility is created of questions
   arising like, 'Well, if I only want a routine from this file,
   am I allowed to just take it as from any other Apache file?'
   The answer is fairly clearly 'yes,' but I'd rather not even raise
   the possibility of the question.  It also sounds as though
   Covalent isn't even keeping it themselves, and is giving up
   any thought of further private enhancements to it.  Who knows,
   maybe there'll be some opportunity for proprietary added-value
   in one of these files; if you've given it *exclusively* to the ASF,
   can you in fairness keep it and make such enhancements?
4. I personally find it mildly offensive.  'Written for Covalent and
   gifted exclusively to Apache in June 2000' sounds like you're
   preparing for a tax writeoff or something. :-)

> I understand that things are changing a bit for this project WRT
> having some paid development efforts helping to move things forward.

How so?  That's been going on for a couple of years now, and
things have run just fine AFAICS.  Do you remember the verbiage
IBMers originally had to attach to every submission, and how
grotesque and bogus we all (IBMers included) found it?  Getting
rid of that was a step forward.  I consider adding flag-waves a
step back.  I didn't like it when Ralf did it, I didn't like it
when IBM (my employer) did it, and I don't like it when Covalent
does it.  Or anyone else.

> Must we continue to waste effort by pushing back on these
> contributions?

I'm not pushing back on the contribution (i.e., the technical
stuff).  I'm pushing back on the flag-waving dribble in the comments.
Are you suggesting that the only way Covalent will continue making
contributions is if the group allows a flag-wave in every one?
Attribution is fine; everyone is entitled to get credit for its
work.  But the group is composed of INDIVIDUALS, not companies.
Companies can't even be members of the Foundation.  Except when
a company donates a chunk o' code, they typically don't get credit
because the *company* isn't doing the work -- the individual is.
#ken    P-)}

Ken Coar                    <http://Golux.Com/coar/>
Apache Software Foundation  <>
"Apache Server for Dummies" <http://Apache-Server.Com/>
"Apache Server Unleashed"   <http://ApacheUnleashed.Com/>

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