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From "Mike Gardiner" <mgardi...@novell.com>
Subject Re: Apache 2.0 rant
Date Fri, 19 May 2000 05:51:13 GMT
Ryan,

Let me just say that what you and the others have done with APR
and the 2.0 architecture in general is great.  It's making the Apache
2.0 port to NetWare very smooth. Still, there are issues and will
always be issues that need to be resolved.  As long as we keep
an open mind and suppress the egos we'll be successful in 
delivering a top notch product.

Also let me reassure you that people will contribute their time to
Apache 2.0.  I'm planning on posting my port to NetWare within
this month.  Keep in mind that while I have been looking at your
work daily I have also been making sure we at Novell will have
the necessary infrastructure (such as pipes) on NetWare so
Apache on NetWare will be functionally equivalent.  It's just going
to take some time.

Relax, take a deep breath and keep up the good work.

-Mike-

>>> rbb@covalent.net 05/18/00 07:37AM >>>

Please ignore this whole message if you want, this is a way for me to get
some stuff off my chest.  I have a feeling that if I don't say these
things now, I will end up walking away from Apache.

<RANT>

For the last month or so, I have seen an increase in the number of
messages complaining about how Apache 2.0 has been implemented.  The funny
thing is that all of those messages are from people who were very active
in the 1.3 development, and very inactive in the 2.0
development.  Different reasons have been given, "I've been to busy", "the
code is too complex", "I didn't think 2.0 had a future".  I have one
question for all of those people:  Where were you all two years ago when
this project started?  Now I'm going to tackle these issues one at a time.

"I've been too busy"  -- too bad, you were too busy doing other things,
now take the time to learn the new system.  You didn't help write the
code, and instead of fixing it, you are complaining about it.  That
doesn't fly with me, I'm ignoring messages from these people from now on.

"The code is too complex" -- That's right, this code is more complex than
Apache 1.3.  It is more complex because we aren't trying to support just
Unix anymore.  If we were trying to support just the platforms that 1.3
started with, 2.0 would look very much like 1.3, and in a year we would
have the same unmaintainable code base, because new platforms are being
added with #ifdefs.  Sorry, this is the price we pay for trying to be
everything to everybody.

"I didn't think 2.0 had a future" -- You made a bad choice then.  I
started asking in January for alpha and beta releases, and people said
they hadn't had time to look at the code.  So, we waited and had our first
alpha in March.  If you still didn't think Apache 2.0 had a future, you
weren't paying attention, and that's not my fault.

Now, the other thing that I have noticed, is that people who have been
working on 2.0 aren't having problems getting code written that is
usable.  This is not just me, nor is it people who have been working on
the code consistently since the beginning of 2.0.  Take a look at Jeff
Trawick, he has come into the picture only in the last two or three
months, and he commits a lot to 2.0.  Or how about William Rowe?  He
hasn't been working on 2.0 since the beginning.  Chuck Murcko started
working on the proxy code for 2.0 in March, he's making good
progress.  Bill Stoddard is busy, but he still finds time to make commits
occasionally.

Bottom line, if you don't like the code, stop complaining and do something
about it.  Don't tell me the code is too complex for you to understand, if
that's the case, rip it out and start it over.  When you have something
working, commit it.  But I am sick and tired of hearing people bitch and
moan because 2.0 doesn't look like 1.3.

</RANT>


_______________________________________________________________________________
Ryan Bloom                            rbb@apache.org
406 29th St.
San Francisco, CA 94131
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