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From "Roy T. Fielding" <field...@kiwi.ICS.UCI.EDU>
Subject Re: Apache 2.0 rant
Date Fri, 19 May 2000 06:42:26 GMT
>Folks, this is what I was talking about earlier in the week.  I am starting
>to become SERIOUSLY concerned about the future of Apache!  This infighting
>has GOT to stop.  Now, yes, I have only recently started to read the mailing
>list.  Basically about the time that 2.0a1 came out.  However, since then, I
>have seen at least 3 big discussions about MPM and APR with what looked like
>to me to end up with a bunch of bickering and egos flying around.  Now, I
>may have misperceived this.  If I did, I apologize.

You misperceived it.

For all the new folks out there who haven't had time to read the past
five years of Apache archives, you need to understand this: our recent
discussions have been very mild compared to the churn and burn that
accompanied the transition from Apache 0.7.3 to Shambhala to Apache 1.0.
This project is run by mailing list, and the only way that people can
express opinions is by arguing on this list, and even though that may
seem less-than-cordial compared to the daily fondling of egos that
occurs during traditional, face-to-face developer meetings, it does work.

We just need to keep in mind that we are arguing about code and software
design, not about each other.  I may argue til I'm blue in the fingers,
but I am still more than happy to buy beer for anyone who contributes.

We are in mass-QA mode right now.  It is absolutely necessary that everyone
involved in development be able to express their opinions openly and
absolutely without watering them down for public consumption.  This is
where we prove that Apache is better software than that produced by 
any single company behind closed doors and pleasant facades.

>I will also grant that I have yet to actually look at the Apache code.
>Ryan, I'm sorry.  Yes.  I am too busy but I also don't have a development
>machine that I would trust Apache 2.0 on right now.  Further more, if there
>is LITTLE or NO documentation of the API, then I do not see this project
>moving forward very far.  :(

Dude, on this part I agree with Ryan: If you aren't contributing to the
development or testing of the product, then why should we care if you are
worried about it?  We aren't doing this work for the faceless millions
who use our products; we are doing it because we need web server software
of the highest possible quality for our own projects, our own companies,
and our own communities.  If for some reason we are failing to support
some community of users, it is necessary for them to join in supporting
the server project, not the other way around.  Because that's the only
way you get code that contains the features that people actually need.

I am not at all worried about the progress of 2.0 development, especially
seeing it grow exponentially over the past two months.  Some of the stuff
that Bill+Bill have accomplished over that period has been more significant
to the win32 port than anything since 1.3.0 was released.  I love this pace.
Apache development is non-linear.  I've seen people here produce higher
quality code in one nights work than I have seen from Microsoft in an entire
year's worth of effort by 400 programmers.  Quantity doesn't matter.
Schedules don't matter either.  What matters is the quality of the final,
non-alpha, non-beta, release.  That is what will make 2.0.0 better than
the most stable 1.3.x.

....Roy

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