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Subject Re: 1.3.13 - Complete some Win32 PRs???
Date Thu, 13 Apr 2000 12:32:44 GMT

> First off, the list has grown fairly long in changes 1.3.13/dev
> Many of these changes are Win32, so I don't know that there is
> sufficient momentum to begin targeting a date for 1.3.13.

Personally, I would like to move away from fixing 1.3, but that is a bit
of selfishness on my part.

Bill, I hope that you are not considering stopping posting patches.  I
know I have not been as proactive in getting your patches into the 2.0
tree as I could be, but I have a machine that I can test on now so I
will be much (much!) faster in commiting Win32 patches from now on.  I am
very hopeful that with a release of 2.0 we can disple the myth that Apache
is not suitable for a Windows machine.  I think 1.3 on Windows may be
something of a lost cause.  It is hard to maintain, and there are serious
limitations just because we are forced to use POSIX calls.  Having said
that, here are the answers as I see them, others may see things

> Q.  [all] Are we moving to set a date to 1.3.13?

I hope not.  If we release 1.3.13, I want it to be limited in scope.  I
know the NetWare guys have some changes that they want to get into the 1.3
tree, I would like to see 1.3.13 wait until they are ready so that we
don't have to have a 1.3.14.  Remember, we were shooting for 1.3.9 fto be
our last 1.3 release (although we all knew that wasn't going to
happen).  :-)

> Q.  [all] If not, is a 1.3.13/int-Win32 release appropriate?

I don't think so.  Only because the NetWare guys have patches too.

> Q.  If I send a set of -clean-, -tested- diff -u 's of the 
>     incomplete Win32 work, that is;  mod_proxy cleanup, taskbar
>     icon upon minimize, JJ Keijser's Win95/98 run-as-service,
>     and the most compact mod_info changes possible, 

I don't know how I feel about the taskbar icon, there are people who don't
think it belongs there.  I have no strong feelings.  If these are all
posted individually, I think you will find people willing to look at them
and commit as appropriate.  (Especially if they are ported to 2.0 at the
same time.)

>     and most importantly, a patch to hold the console window 
>     open (until it is dismissed) if the server exits with an
>     error (so the GUI fools can see what they broke),

I am definately doubleplus 1 for this.

>     Will an individual commit to committing these to 1.3.13,
>     and the alpha-4?  You've seen the quality of my patches,
>     and these changes only touch the Win32 code path.

I think you'll have a hard time getting somebody to commit to committing
these until we have seen the code.  I will commit to looking at the
patches though.  :-)

> I feel the ASF does not take the 1.3/Win32 port seriously.  
> Of course we state this upfront, but we expect these folks
> to come running back to Apache on the release of 2.0?

I don't know if people will come back to Apache with 2.0.  I think 1.3 on
Windows works, but not well, and it is really a lost cause, because we
tried to fit a Unix model into the Windows world, and that doesn't work
well.  2.0 fixes a vast majority of these issues, so I expect people to
try 2.0 on Windows if it gets good reviews and can live up to it's Unix

> Many patches have taken months to hit the tree, and other
> appropriate patches have been ignored -without comment-.  
> This is really not acceptable.  Respond with -something-.  
> Everyone gets a chuckle out of the kudo messages to the 
> group - I don't believe we take the time to do so for any
> or most of these contributors.  That is fine if you commit
> their work and credit them.  But if you don't ack them at 
> all, you've lost a contributor.

Unfortunately, this is a recurring problem in the group.  We all work on
the sections that are important to us.  I haven't even looked at the 1.3
tree for almost a year, because I don't care about it anymore.  I see the
future as 2.0.  We all TRY to ack patches as they come in, but it isn't
always easy to get to them all.

> I'm really not supprized we don't see more patches from these
> individuals.  I thank Ryan and FirstBill, and several others,
> for wasting the time to explain how my patches are good, bad,
> appropriate or not.  I don't see such comments in the archived
> newsgroups to many of these contributors.

I don't think of it as wasted time.  I hope you continue to submit
patches, most of them are very good, if a bit long sometimes.  :-) 

Ryan Bloom               
406 29th St.
San Francisco, CA 94131

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