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From Greg Stein <>
Subject Re: Massive changes to Win32 makefile
Date Tue, 04 Apr 2000 05:40:03 GMT
While I have disagreed with some of your points before, I have to say that
I really like this one :-)


On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 wrote:

> Re: Massive changes to Win32 makefile
> It seems a little silly to even be worrying about all
> this when you have actually released the code and
> you are still simply discovering that there are files 
> in APR and 2.0 that aren't even used anymore 
> ( readdir.c earlier today ).
> Also given that fact that you are in pure Alpha
> and there are probably legions of other more important
> things to fix than makefiles... just trash the Win32
> makefiles and offer out the .DSW and .DSP for that
> platform and get on with it.
> On a day when a judge has actually finally ruled about
> what everyone has known all along... that Microsoft
> was using it's position in the marketplace to limit
> fair competition... it seems funny to be saying 'what the
> heck... just get married to to MSVC'... but I submit that
> when a court can rule that a company is in violation of
> the most stringent anti-trust laws on the books and their
> stock only dips a little and then recovers immediately on
> the foreign exchanges... it's time to realize that the Borg
> cube really has been cruising unabated for quite some 
> time now and the process is complete. 
> We have been assimilated. Time to just move on.
> If you don't have MSVC... stop whining and just
> go and get it. ( See WAREZ if you don't have the money ).
> When there is some kind of STABLE version of 2.0
> and/or stabilized UNIX makefiles and/or some need 
> for other makefiles the issue(s) can be addressed at 
> that time. You are 'out the door' and it seems like 
> 90 percent of the messages and attention are simply
> focused on banal things like 'how do we fix a makefile'.
> In the meantime... if anyone wants to build with
> Borland ( or any other Win32 compiler ) just offer them this...
> ( It assumes the point on your end is to offer something to
> someone that doesn't even HAVE MSVC... which I honestly
> don't know who that would be. I hate it and even I have it ).
> 1. Load your Apache project into your MSVC and 
> pick Project|Export makefile.
> 2. Run that makefile using the following command
> which will NOT re-make anything but will record the
> entire 'actual' compile and link commands to a capture
> file called 'rawbuild.bat'
> nmake /A /P /N /U -f whatever_apache_make_is_called.mak > rawbuild.bat
> 3. Add that (yes) MSVC only makefile and the 
> resultant rawbuild.bat output file to the source
> code distribution.
> 4. Anyone with ANY other Win32 'C' compiler including
> Borland or CC386 or Watcom can just use 'rawbuild.bat'
> to build the thing... all you have to do is a quick search 
> and replace on the compiler specific stuff in the file
> or alias the commands. Not pretty but who cares. 
> It works fine. I use this all the time for 4 different Win32
> compilers.
> ( Editorial comment: makefiles themselves were only really
> valuable when complicated programs would take all day
> to re-compile on slow machines. I re-compile Apache all
> the time and I always rebuild EVERYTHING all the time
> and on any modern PC this is a no-brainer. Even something
> with as many 'objects' as Apache can completely sew itself back 
> together in less time than it takes go get a drink of water so
> a lot of the fuss about makefiles anymore is 'much ado about
> nothing' IMHO ).
> BTW: There are now programs out there that can simply
> 'translate' MSVC .DSP and .DSW into 'other' GUI IDE 
> project formats so what are you all worrying about? Just
> commit to the MSVC stuff and get on with it.
> Kevin Kiley
> CTO, Remote Communications, Inc.

Greg Stein,

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