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From Jim Jagielski <>
Subject Re: apache2-ng7
Date Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:10:37 GMT
Ralf S. Engelschall wrote:
> But with a special Apache-specific exception clause which allows you to
> distribute even an adjusted version you shouldn't have any problem!? Hmmm?

Yes. I think it would be nice that Apache 2.0 includes a set of useful
Open Source tools, including APR and our shell scripts. We've always
said that Apache is more than just the server, and this is a great
way to expand that. Since we will be using those scripts on all Apache-2.0
platforms, it will have a HUGE audience.

> > Using
> > a 3rd party tool, "just because it's there" when we either already
> > have it here, or it's blazingly simple to implement on our own, doesn't
> > make sense. 
> <grin> Thanks that you say the stuff in shtool was "blazingly simple to
> implement", but ok, if something doesn't make sense for _you_ then _you_
> shouldn't do it, of course. But what I dislike in the whole discussion is that
> you always like to speak for the ASF in general, Jim. At least it sounds this
> way. OTOH _I_ think it makes sense to use those tools, because...

I don't speak for the ASF. I can't. This is always IMO. However, I DO
tend to try to think what's in the best interest of Apache and ASF,
rather than what's in the best interest of one of it's members. Quite
frankly, I'm a bit tired of you telling us how we should be doing Apache
and then directing us to use solutions that have your name all over them.
It's been my opinion all along that Apache should have their own
'shtools' implementation. And we do with the scripts in helpers. Dropping
those in favor of shtools just because you want us to doesn't make sense.
In the process of developing A-2.0 we _WILL_ need tools, and I would
prefer that whenever possible those tools be part of an Apache toolset,
completely covered by the Apache License. Of course, there is the
old saying "why invent the wheel" but in many ways, the "wheel" was
invented here first. The 2 scripts that Manoj mentioned him using
was the mkdir and install scripts. There are many PD versions of these
floating around. shtools is not the only option. So yes, to be honest,
if we could provide tools that have the ASF name on them, then _I'd_
like for that to happen. And _you_ had the opportunity to have shtools
as an ASF project, rather than a GNU one, but opted not to.

Anyway, this is a moot point. I've made my opinion known, and it counts
as only one little vote. We are still a group. If I don't "get my way"
I'm not going to moan and cry and say "I can't put up with this anymore."
Hopefully we're all a little more mature than that.
   Jim Jagielski   [|]   [|]
                "Are you suggesting coconuts migrate??"

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