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From Ben Laurie <>
Subject Re: Apache 2000, err Apache 2.0 gets real
Date Sun, 01 Aug 1999 15:35:50 GMT
"Ralf S. Engelschall" wrote:
> In article <> you wrote:
> > Ralf S. Engelschall wrote:
> >>
> >> > PS: As an aside, if we feel that we need something like shtool, I would
> >> >     prefer Apache releasing it's own "helpers" package.
> >>
> >> <grin> Why? What do you expect to gain from this? Why do you still dislike
> >> shtool so much, Jim?
> >
> > Not at all. It's just that the helpers scripts represent a lot
> > of work and could be useful for other projects. It would be
> > nice for Apache to provide that as another ASF "project".
> Ok, but GNU shtool was born exactly out of this reason when you remember.
> _Because_ the scripts were useful for other projects. And by bundling them
> together in the stand-alone shtool package this goal was now already achieved.
> Ok, the ingredients of shtool are not exactly those of our helper scripts, but
> the functionality of shtool is mainly a subset of them. The argument for an
> "ASF project" is for me a non-technical one and would lead to reinventing the
> wheel just for political reasons IMHO, wouldn't it?

That's silly. The argument for creating shtool was non-technical, too. I
seem to remember it was aesthetic, and therefore I should conclude that
shtool was reinventing the wheel for political reasons, using your
logic. Particularly since it is a mere bundling of the helper scripts.

> Here you perhaps should keep in mind that the reason why shtool became "GNU
> shtool" and not "ASF shtool" is partly related to the fact that the ASF
> initially complained such horribly about shtool (and in person: Jim) ;)

Hmm. So what you are saying is that you took ASF scripts, bundled them
together and relicensed them as a GNU tool. Isn't that a breach of the

And now you are suggesting we should take our own code back under a
licence we don't use because using our own code under our own licence is
"reinventing the wheel". Somehow I feel like I've suddenly landed on an
alien planet.




"My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the
first group; there was less competition there."
     - Indira Gandhi

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