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From "Ralf S. Engelschall" <>
Subject Re: Apache 2000, err Apache 2.0 gets real
Date Sun, 01 Aug 1999 14:36:30 GMT

In article <> you wrote:
> Ralf S. Engelschall wrote:
>> > PS: As an aside, if we feel that we need something like shtool, I would
>> >     prefer Apache releasing it's own "helpers" package.
>> <grin> Why? What do you expect to gain from this? Why do you still dislike
>> shtool so much, Jim?
> Not at all. It's just that the helpers scripts represent a lot
> of work and could be useful for other projects. It would be
> nice for Apache to provide that as another ASF "project".

Ok, but GNU shtool was born exactly out of this reason when you remember.
_Because_ the scripts were useful for other projects. And by bundling them
together in the stand-alone shtool package this goal was now already achieved.
Ok, the ingredients of shtool are not exactly those of our helper scripts, but
the functionality of shtool is mainly a subset of them. The argument for an
"ASF project" is for me a non-technical one and would lead to reinventing the
wheel just for political reasons IMHO, wouldn't it? 

Here you perhaps should keep in mind that the reason why shtool became "GNU
shtool" and not "ASF shtool" is partly related to the fact that the ASF
initially complained such horribly about shtool (and in person: Jim) ;)

So I've to admit that I still don't see a real reason why the ASF should still
create a package out of the helper scripts and ignore to use GNU shtool, Jim.
When you take the helper scripts and subtract the GNU shtool functionality not
very much remains, of course. And when you not subtract the functionality it's
more or less a reinvention of a package. Hmmm... I'm very surprised that you
still focus on this idea... but ok, when the group finally should decide this
is reasonable I cannot do anything, of course ;)

                                       Ralf S. Engelschall

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