Return-Path: Delivered-To: new-httpd-archive@hyperreal.org Received: (qmail 28004 invoked by uid 6000); 2 Jul 1999 00:03:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 27998 invoked from network); 2 Jul 1999 00:03:58 -0000 Received: from impatience.valueclick.com (qmailr@216.64.159.40) by taz.hyperreal.org with SMTP; 2 Jul 1999 00:03:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 14802 invoked by uid 500); 2 Jul 1999 00:03:57 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 2 Jul 1999 00:03:57 -0000 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:03:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Ask Bjoern Hansen To: new-httpd@apache.org Subject: Re: Front end needs some work In-Reply-To: <401141e4.24ad0193@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: new-httpd-owner@apache.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: new-httpd@apache.org Status: O On Thu, 1 Jul 1999 TOKILEY@aol.com wrote: ... > Could someone please get this condescending, Erm... asshole > off the front-end? Put him in the back checking for APR buffer > overwrites or something. Do we have a volunteer here, or do you just make noise? > You too.. Randy... example... > >Not acked. Seems he may be smoking something... That was to the "internal" developers list; a quick way of saying: "Wondering what he's really talking about, it's not exactly easy to guess from his mail". That's how "internal forums" works (and should work). A few other points: o) Apache have users, not customers. RedHat, IBM, Apple etc have customers. o) Marc does a great job helping people. o) The people who decide what's in Apache and what's not is very very clueful, and it's absolutely the exception that a rejection of some change isn't because of good technical reasons. o) You're free to distribute your changes if you want. o) The bugdb is not "the frontend". o) Marc is not the only person answering bugdb input o) Apache is not a GNU project. o) With limited developertime, what's most important: 1) Improving Apache or 2) Helping users with problems even when it's not helping Apache. (I wouldn't put 2 cents on the guy Marc replied would be able to help if there really is a problem, even if Marc or someone else would spend hours writing nice instructions for reading the errorlog or whatever and trying to help him helping himself). I really think the "New Problem Report form" should include some text like what we have in the mod_perl SUPPORT document (http://perl.apache.org/dist/mod_perl-1.20/SUPPORT - "Homework - Make sure to read the FAQ", "Start the httpd with -X", "Check the errorlog", "Include all relevant information, usually including X, Y, Z and birthdate", "Remember to include enough information so we can recreate the problem; can you make a small test case?", "Can you get a backtrace (if httpd is dumping core) - see X for how to make the backtrace", "If you don't give us this information we can't help you helping us", etc...) - ask -- ask bjoern hansen - more than 14M impressions per day,