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From "Roy T. Fielding" <field...@kiwi.ics.uci.edu>
Subject Re: cvs commit: apache-1.3/src/test/rename apapi.h apapi.h.mk rename.cf
Date Wed, 08 Apr 1998 01:24:18 GMT
>> Now that I have successfully tested Ralf's scripts (and brilliant work
>> it is), I am even less inclined to believe in this prefixing names as
>> a means for differentiating between purposes.  All of the symbols that
>> look like ap_whatever are clear and to the point.  All of the symbols
>> that look like apx_whatever are confusing -- confusing because there is
>> no apparent reason for the difference, nor is there any need for the
>> difference, nor is the difference "correct" in any sense because I am
>> certain that some of those symbols are intended to be public, and finally
>> confusing because "apx_" interferes with readability of the names
>> significantly more that "ap_" (33% more, in fact).
>
>I submit that almost all of the above is purely subjective.

Well, some of it certainly is.  I wasn't intending to be objective.

>On a subjective level, I disagree as follows:
>
> o If there is no apparent reason for the difference between apx_ 
>   and ap_, it *might* have something to do with a meaningless
>   prefix having been chosen.  It *might* also seem that way because
>   you're so familiar with the historical arrangement that you
>   can't be unbiased in your judgment.  (Not a slam or criticism.)

It might.  That doesn't change the effect it has on the reader (me).

> o If apx_ is being used for some symbols that are supposed to be
>   public, that's a defect in the identification of those symbols
>   as private and hardly the fault of the prefix.

Yes, so why don't you go ahead and identify those symbols.  What, no time?
Not sure?  Then the correct way to proceed is to mark them all as public
(since that is what they are now) and change them individually later when
we know for sure that nobody will use them.

> o I submit that "apx_ is 33% less readable than ap_" simply
>   because 'x' is an arbitrary string conveying no additional
>   information.

Agreed.  And "apapi_" is 200% less readable because "apapi" is also
an arbitrary string conveying no additional information.  That is why
the majority feel "ap_" is better.

>> This prefix argument has been on the table now for a long time.
>> Unless four people suddenly change their minds, we are going with
>> just "ap_" and nothing more.  I'll wait another 24 hours to be sure.
>
>Yes, Master.  Do I seem restive in the face of a unilateral time-based
>decision?  You bet - our official *release managers* don't have
>this authority, so whence comes yours?  Sheer 'elder statesman'ness?
>But perhaps I'm misreading your tone - easy to do in email.

What the fuck?  You are the one who asked for 24 hours.  It was your
unilateral request to ignore the votes passed so far just
so you could mull it over for another day.  So, I agreed, and now you
claim I am being authoritarian?  How many days do we have to wait for
you to actually read STATUS and count the votes?

>If there is a significant division of opinion, arbitrary ultimata
>seem inappropriate.

Read the guidelines.  Why do I have to keep saying that?  They don't
exist in order to help us maintain consensus -- if we had consensus, we'd
just go ahead and apply it.  They exist for exactly this situation,
where we can't agree on a course of action and yet need to come to a
decision before we can proceed.  So how do we come up with a decision?
We make proposals and they get voted on.  If the proposal is a choice
between alternatives, MAJORITY opinion decides the issue.  If a course
of action is decided and a change to the server is required, you can veto
the change if you have a good reason.  It is generally assumed that
"the majority is wrong" is not by itself a good reason, since then
there would be no point in having majority votes.

What part of this is arbitrary ultimata?  Ralf put forward the proposal
last Thursday!  At the time I wrote the above, there were 3 +1 and one 0
vote for doing the global replace (the actual code change) and a
5-to-3 majority for making "ap_" the one and only prefix.  Do the math.

Do you know what the difference is between endless discussion on an issue
and making a decision?  It is the point at which some people get disappointed.
It is foolish to think that we will all agree on every decision.  It is
even more foolish to disrupt the process of coming to a decision every
time you disagree with the result.

....Roy

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