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From "Roy T. Fielding" <field...@kiwi.ics.uci.edu>
Subject Re: apache/linux modules
Date Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:27:23 GMT
This is my last post on this issue, since further argument is pointless.

In message <199802031334.IAA10631@devsys.jaguNET.com>, Jim Jagielski writes:
>Bah... saying "real world experience" about the hassles of using
>autoconf/configure is "saying nothing" is wrong, wrong, wrong.
>I would submit that saying that "we can make autoconf/configure
>do whatever we want and everything will be hunky-dory because,
>well, gosh darn it, it just _can_" carries a bit less weight.

Jim, I would submit that you are writing without a clue on this issue.
You don't know squat about how automake/autoconf works, and yet you are
willing to compare it to Configure as if you do.  I can't force you to
go out and learn how it works, but I can tell you what I know from using
it on another project for more than a year now.  When you stop spouting
nonsense based on nothing other than a poorly grounded imagination,
I'll start listening to your opinion of autoconf as if it mattered.
BTW, the same comment applies to what Marc has said about autoconf
as well -- there have been far too many bogus statements in this thread
based upon no research whatsoever, and in case you hadn't noticed by
now, I am getting fed up with the effort it takes to differentiate
between posts backed-up by some thought process and those which could
have been generated just as easily by an auto-spam robot.

The easiest way to find a clue is to download the bloody program and
actually try programming with it, rather than interpreting its behavior
from the standpoint of a user of somebody else's configure program.
If you are not willing to do that, then at least have the courtesy to
believe it when three other Apache people who *do* have that experience
tell you how it works.

There are plenty of things that *are* annoying about automake, and
a whole raft of pitfalls regarding the standard macros supplied
with the system, and several hundred "tips" that make the difference
between a nice configure process and one that sucks like Kansas.
That is why I said it wouldn't be easy, and why I said it would be
wise to actually get the good stuff from that Tom dude who created
automake in the first place and once *volunteered* to write the
macros for us before you blew him off.

It's hard enough to make decisions based on reasoned argument.
Adding irrational fears and outdated experiences to the list makes
it impossible to make any decisions.  Would you lend credence to
someone who says Apache sucks because version 0.6.13 was slow?
Well, that's equivalent to what you have said so far about autoconf.
When you figure out the difference, that's when we can have
a real discussion about which is better and how to do it right.

....Roy

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