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From Daniel Veillard <>
Subject Re: W3C <-> Apache
Date Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:48:32 GMT

> Ah! So you set the conditions that may well work for folks from large corporations
> that pay the bucks to send folks dedicated to this work. I worked for a company
> that produced a web server for NT; we couldn't afford to pay money AND dedicate
> a person 1/2 time to do this stuff. How can The Apache Group do so?
> Sure sounds elitist to me!

  I guess the goal of the 50% was set up to get a smaller dedicated group
in the initial design. Just to avoid the kind of mess when starting something
from scratch and everybody gives it's own piece of advice. Very difficult
to get up to something reasonable in these conditions.
  This process would be elitist if it would come up with a complete "finished"
design and try to get it adopted as-if as a standard ... definitely not the
expected process, and as an individual I would certainly fight again such
a process (ever heard of I20 :-( ).

  Now, the W3C is getting some money from members, hey I need to eat too,
and this allow to spend human resources on writing specs (like HTTP/1.1),
and in that case to try to find a way to overcome the limitations of the
current spec. HTTP-NG project is just about that : investigation. The code
written to the testbed may just go to the trash directly if it doesn't
fulfill the expectation. I am not sure that any of you guy really want  
to invest too much time and effort in working on the testbed implementation.

  But we definitely think that:
    - Apache Group feedback will be useful once we get something which
      will be worth reviewing.
    - If the HTTP-NG proposal is successfully received, we will need
      reference implementations, and at that time we will need to get
      a strong interaction between the Apache group (to get the magic +1
      on patches :-) and the people coding it and following the standard
      IETF process. 

 In the meantime, I guess that if people here really have enough interest
to dig in the mud with the HTTP-NG WG during the preliminary phase, some
of them may be invited as invited expert, as Henrik said, but that's mean
getting their hands dirty, not sitting on the border of the hole giving
nice comments !

  Now, as a general point of view, I think that W3C and Apache Group need
a way to establish good relationship, we need invited experts for various
working group established within the W3C process, and you seem to get
interest on what's happening here, so ...


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