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From Chuck Murcko <>
Subject Re: Voting guidelines..
Date Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:03:57 GMT
Paul Richards wrote:
> Jim Jagielski <> writes:
> > Right now, all commits MUST be true bug-fixes; not enhancements, not
> > "better ways of doing this": Bug fixes.
> This should have been the case since the first beta and that was what
> was agreed but too many people have loosened the criteria and now
> they've loosened so much virtually anything is apparently a "bug fix"!
> > I think Paul had a point, and a good one. However, I don;t think that
> > it calls for a total revamp of How We Do Business, which it appears
> > is what he may have been advocating and what most people disapprove
> > of (myself included).
> I'm not calling for a total revamp. I always been against voting and
> prior to the beta release we'd relaxed it so that unless it was a
> major change you could just go and commit it and that worked
> absolutely fine until we decided to do a beta release and the voting
> was re-imposed. Since then the quality of the tree has dropped
> significantly and 6 months later we're in worse shape.
> Perhaps the only "revamp" I'd suggest is that we branch the tree for
> releases from now on and have a release engineer.
> The code needs a serious clean-up and I can't do that in a beta
> release without breaking the rules I'm advocating so I'm just sitting
> here twiddling my thumbs while people keep applying bandaids and
> ultimately making the situation worse.
And then what?

I consider this discussion, *at this time*, a total crock. If you had
one iota of a clue about software engineering, you'd understand that the
time period of a push toward release is *not* the time to come in and
start making holier-than-thou pronouncements about how bad things are.
You fix things in that time, not expound how your ideas are better than
everyone else's. All you're doing now is trying to install yourself as
some kind of release guru, and diverting people's attention from the
problems at hand that need fixing. You're also endangering the morale of
this project.

If you want to help, do so. If not, leave us alone to get this thing
working properly and out the door.

Apache group has changed, and so the process must change. Now is not the
time to do so. Now is also not the time to bitch about it.

We need people fixing things in Apache now, not arguing with you about
how bloody great things are on the FreeBSD project vs. how totally
cocked up they are here. We don't need yet another vote/no vote debate.
We don't need to know about your credentials. To me, your performances
here carry far more weight than those.

Yes, this is all IMO. And no, there *are* no smileys. I've got 9 bug
reports to resolve *now*. I don't need you to tell me they're there, or
that the fixes will be bandaids, or that this release is a playpen. I
know *exactly* what they are, and I know where the code I work on stands
now versus where it stood at 1.1 release. It's one hell of a lot further
along than it was then, any way you choose to measure it.
Chuck Murcko
The Topsail Group, West Chester PA USA

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