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From Andrew Wilson <>
Subject Re: Apache web site & Sioux (fwd)
Date Fri, 29 Mar 1996 00:26:47 GMT
Bad boy Robh inna HOUSE:
> first they nick your code then they ask for credit :-)

Eh?  Oh, sorry, thought you we're talking about me for a second
there ;)

> If someone else wants to answer it, then feel free, otherwise
> let me know what I should tell him.
> My gut feeling is that unless it's free and source is available
> AND developement is somehow tied in (aka related) to Apache, then
> it's not suitable for inclusion on the "related project" page.

Firstly, I've already voiced my slight unease in the wording of
Thwate's newsgroup announcement, but I don't want to seem like I'm
dead against what Thwate have done.  My original concern was that:

1. 	if it's not based on Apache (sufficent to warrant a 
	full disclaimer) then don't mention Apache Group in the
	same breath as Thwate

2.	if it *is* necessary to mention Apache Group's contribution
	in Thwate's promotional materials then put the damned
	disclaimer in?! *shrug*

Anyhow, we've aired *that* point already, and personally I don't
think it's worth my while to thrash the issue still further ahead
of concensus.

Secondly, I agree with Robh that 'related projects' should infer
that some positive contribution has been made back to the Group's
efforts.  This is clearly the case for Ben and Sameer's works, so
much so that they're practically indistingushable from Apache Group
work; I'm sure that only we sense any distinction, and then only
if we bother to.

I don't think that Thwate have yet contributed to the Project in
any tangible sense, and I think that some form of collaborative
effect, at least, should be visible before <bullshit>formal
recognition</bullshit> is given.  I'm not against hearing from
Thwate and I'd really love to know what they're doing differently
in their code.

Finally, I may be guilty of a double standard here.  I have close
dealings with Netcraft and they have a link from Apache Group
webspace.  This alone may disqualify my views.

All in all it's a tricky problem.


> Message-ID: <>
> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 00:27:46 +0200
> From: Mark Shuttleworth <>
> Organization: Thawte Consulting cc
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; Linux 1.2.13 i486)
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To:
> Subject: Apache web site & Sioux
> X-URL:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Hi Rob
> Thawte Consulting will be releasing the final version of
> Sioux,  a commercial Apache derivative with SSL support,
> builting CGI language (Python) and strong client authentication
> and filtering.
> Would it be reasonable to ask for a link on the "Related 
> Projects" part of the Apache web site?  Who do I need to contact?
> Thanks,
> Mark
> --
> Mark Shuttleworth
> Thawte Consulting cc.
> ----- End of forwarded message from Mark Shuttleworth -----
> -- 
> Rob Hartill (
> The Internet Movie Database (IMDb)
>            ...more movie info than you can poke a stick at.

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