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From Mike Drob <md...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Attic podling Apache HTrace?
Date Wed, 13 Sep 2017 16:01:39 GMT
Hi folks,

Want to pull this conversation back into people's minds to summarize and
reposit some questions.

It looks like there is consensus that 1) HTrace is generally useful but 2)
needs to refocus on more specific use cases rather than trying to be a
general purpose tool and 3) suffers from being niche on niche.

There have been lots of folks volunteering to contribute, but I don't see
any resulting JIRA or mailing list activity. We all can have the best of
intentions while still not having the necessary time available to follow
through, myself included.

Projects can still be successful outside of the ASF; retiring as a podling
does not preclude others from picking up the works. As one example, I have
seen many vibrant communities run as github projects with a core set of
dedicated contributors. I don't believe that living in the ASF makes it any
easier or harder for other Apache projects such as Hadoop to integrate with
us, so long as the licensing remains compatible. In the future, if a
diverse community springs up again and finds the desire to come back, I
don't think that will be a problem to re-incubate at that point either.

Thoughts?
Mike


On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 3:32 AM, Raam Rosh-Hai <raam@findhotel.net> wrote:

> Thank you Colin for your response,
> I was actually referring to Adrian's comment on making Htrace and Zipkin
> play more nicely together, I have been using Htrace with zipkin for a while
> now and I am doing pretty well but I was wondering if there are some
> glaring pain points that should be attended.
>
> On 30 August 2017 at 23:41, Colin McCabe <cmccabe@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017, at 02:09, Raam Rosh-Hai wrote:
> > > I tend to agree that zipkin should be used as a frontend and I am
> pretty
> > > sure I will have some time to advance that in the coming weeks if one
> of
> > > the experts could create a few tasks.
> >
> > Hi Raam,
> >
> > If you're interested in this, check out the Zipkin trace sink.  That
> > allows you to send HTrace spans to Zipkin.
> >
> > >
> > > I think no one touched the obvious thing that tracing lacks any kind of
> > > hype, it's just not glamours and in order to want to use such a
> framework
> > > you need to be versed in this world and to actually suffer from
> > > distributed
> > > debugging.
> >
> > Yeah, I think this is an area where some publicity and outreach would be
> > a good thing :)
> >
> > It would help a lot if we could identify some core use-cases, like Stack
> > said, and make sure everything works great for those.
> >
> > Colin
> >
> >
> > >
> > > so yes, I think this project deserves one last push before putting it
> in
> > > the attic and I would be happy to complete a few issues in order to
> make
> > > this happen.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 19 August 2017 at 03:55, Adrian Cole <adrian.f.cole@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Thanks Adrian for the editorial on the landscape. Helps, especially
> > > > coming
> > > > > from yourself.
> > > > we aim to please
> > > >
> > > > > Given current state of the project, a retrofit to come up on OT is
> > not
> > > > the
> > > > > solution to the topic-at-hand (and besides I have a colored opinion
> > on
> > > > > taking on the API of another after spending a bunch of time
> recently
> > > > > undoing our mistake letting third-party Interfaces and Classes show
> > > > through
> > > > > in hbase).
> > > > sensible for any api highly disconnected from the ecosystem,
> > > > especially without practice yet.
> > > >
> > > > > I appreciate the higher-level point made by Andrew, that it is hard
> > to
> > > > > thread a cross-cutting library across the Hadoop landscape whether
> > > > because
> > > > > releases happen on the geologic time scale or that there is little
> > by way
> > > > > of coordination.
> > > > I think this is indeed leading a path towards focus, eg the H in
> > Htrace :)
> > > >
> > > > > Can we do a focused 'win' like Colin suggests? E.g. hook up hbase
> and
> > > > hdfs
> > > > > end-to-end with connection to a viewer (zipkin? Or text dumps in
a
> > > > > webpage?). A while back I had a go at the hbase side but it was
> > burning
> > > > up
> > > > > the hours just getting it hooked up w/ tests to scream if any spans
> > were
> > > > > broken in a refactor. I had to put it aside.
> > > > Incidentally, I wouldn't necessarily say Zipkin is ready out of box
> > > > because htrace UI and query is more advanced (in some ways due to
> some
> > > > data storage options we have available). So, something like this
> could
> > > > be a move of focus which would require investment on the other side
> to
> > > > avail features needed, or discuss how to upgrade into them (ex if
> > > > using hbase storage, certain queries would work). It is fair to say
> > > > zipkin has  a great devops pipeline, we are good at fixing things. At
> > > > the same time, we are imperfect in impl and inexperienced in hadoop
> > > > ecosystem. Having some way to join together could be really
> > > > beneficial, at the cost of up-front effort (due to model, UI and
> > > > storage differences). I would be happy to direct time, though would
> > > > need some help because of my irrelevance in the data services space
> > > > (something this might correct!)
> > > >
> > > > > Like the rest of you, my time is a little occupied elsewhere these
> > times
> > > > so
> > > > > I can't revive the project, not at the moment at least.
> > > > ack
> > > >
> >
>

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