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From "Paul Fremantle" <pzf...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [HttpComponents] Going TLP
Date Thu, 24 May 2007 10:11:40 GMT
Roland

I understand your concerns. But the text doesn't mirror my experience.

Firstly, not all TLPs require active committers to be on the PMC. For
example the WS PMC has plenty of committers not on the PMC.

Secondly, being on the PMC is not a huge burden, except maybe the
chair who has to write the reports. Otherwise, participating in
discussions is something we all do (like this one). I'm on two PMCs
and it isn't a burden to me.

I respect your issues and I think its acceptable to have committers
who are not on the PMC. The main reason to encourage committers to be
on the PMC is that you only get Apache legal protection if you are on
the PMC. So for legal reasons its better that committers are PMC
members.

Paul



On 5/23/07, Roland Weber <ossfwot@dubioso.net> wrote:
> Hello Oleg,
>
> see the definition of the roles in Apache:
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#roles
>
> Committer:
> ...are actually making short-term decisions for the project.
>
> PMC:
> The PMC as a whole is the entity that controls the project...
>
>
> My coding frenzy earlier this year and the subsequent
> build process dispute have given me both reason and
> opportunity to reconsider my involvement in this project.
> We got along much better recently for one simple reason:
> I am restricting myself to short-term decisions. I think
> it all took a wrong turn when I became a PMC and started
> to care about "Jakarta as a whole". But even with Jakarta
> out of the picture, there remains one simple fact:
> The two of us are in constant disagreement.
>
> On the coding level, I feel that we get along great.
> We exchange our ideas, pick them up, reconsider, make
> small steps, and so on. In the end, we have something
> that is better than either of us would have achieved
> on his own. (or so I think :-)
> On the project level, this does not work. We keep
> modules in a component, or we don't. We have a build
> process that covers all of the code, or we don't.
> There is no compromise. The Apache Way is clear:
> Meritocracy. If you want to see things go your way,
> put in more work. But my time is limited, and I am
> still spending more of it than I want to. So I decided
> to care much less about things beyond the coding level.
> And I believe this is, in the long run, not compatible
> with being on a PMC. I'm staying on the Jakarta PMC
> to see HttpComponents out, but that's it.
>
> This would not be a problem for me if there were more
> people involved and we could get majority decisions.
> But that is not the case. Time and again, it is you
> and me and nobody else. I am sick and tired of these
> stalemate discussions that eat up my time and raise
> my frustration level without leading anywhere. If I
> see more people actively involved, I might reconsider
> this decision. But as things are now, I will not put
> myself into more heads-up situations with you.
>
>
> > Active committer MUST be a PMC member.
>
> I remember that Henri voice his _opinion_ that all
> committers _should_ be PMC. That may even have been
> the opinion of the board. But I don't remember seeing
> that written down as a binding rule for either Apache
> or Jakarta. PMCs set their own rules of course, and
> so can the HttpComponents PMC if we go TLP.
>
> If being a committer requires being PMC, I will
> provide patches for JIRA issues and let somebody
> else do the commits. I am not looking for ways to
> spend more time on this project, or to take more
> responsibility for it. Quite the opposite is true.
>
> cheers,
>   Roland
>
>
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>
>


-- 
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair

blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com

"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com

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