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From "Henri Yandell" <flame...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: HttpComponents and the coming end of Jakarta
Date Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:49:05 GMT
On 4/7/07, Oleg Kalnichevski <olegk@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sat, 2007-04-07 at 11:31 +0200, Roland Weber wrote:
> > Hi Oleg, all,
> >
> > > quite probable that Jakarta Commons will become a TLP in the very near
> > > future
> >
> > How would that affect Commons HttpClient 3.x? I guess they'll
> > leave that one in Jakarta, right?
> >
> > > which implies it is just a matter of time the remaining projects
> > > of Jakarta will be forced to choose whether they want to go TLP or to
> > > die.
> >
> > If we're forced out of Jakarta, how would that affect Commons HttpClient?
> > I guess we'd leave that one in Jakarta to die, right?
> >
> > morbid cheers,
> >   Roland
> >
>
> Hi Roland,
>
> I have no idea what these guys are thinking. Anyways, I think we should
> stick to the original plan: we support Commons HttpClient 3.x line until
> Jakarta HttpClient (scuzme I meant to say Apache HttpClient) goes RC1,
> then Commons HttpClient goes into dormancy.
>
> We should ask this question to Henri, though

Sobering thread. Social engineering etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_%28political_science%29
makes interesting reading, and reading that there's no way I can argue
that this is not social engineering. Jakarta has been told for 6 years
that it must behave as a single PMC, a piece of social engineering
that does not scope beyond a single community. We were never a single
community, and so we remain a broken remnant which (imo) should have
become its own foundation (but hindsight is wonderful).

I don't like such things - broken things that everyone steps around
and ignores, or complain about in private. I currently can see two
ways to 'fix' Jakarta. The first is to disband it, the second is to
force it into one community (merge dev lists, clean up the PMC so it
reflects the communities who are still left, flatten all components to
one level).

The latter is a piece of social engineering that would give anyone who
tries to pull it off a stomach ulcer. The remaining subcommunities in
Jakarta do not want to be merged into other communities, and thus will
always vote for the broken system - because to the subcommunities of
Jakarta it is not a broken system, it is how they want to be.

The former is brutal and simple. Continue the migration out of
Jakarta, which in my opinion Commons having hung around for so long
has prevented from reaching its obvious day when the last half dozen
active committers are having to shoulder an undesirable maintenance
load.

--

Moving to Web Services seems odd to me, though I guess they're the
last remaining umbrella out there (XML is at the 'there's no one left
to turn the light out' stage) so that would be an advantage.
Personally I don't see why not on the TLP bit. I don't see why there
would be any social engineering needed in a Commons TLP - but I'm sure
I'll come up with something.

Why not just move Commons HttpClient into HttpComponents? And then to
wherever? It stopped being a part of Commons when the mailing lists
were split (again hindsight).

Hen

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