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From Michael Becke <be...@u.washington.edu>
Subject Re: JIRA vs Bugzilla issue
Date Wed, 21 Jan 2004 21:16:47 GMT
I agree these are some good idea Eric.  The one main problem, as it has 
been discussed on commons-dev, is that no-one seems to be interested in 
maintaining Bugzilla.  This is why we are using such an old version.  
This seems to be a key issue for some of the other commons projects.

Mike

On Jan 21, 2004, at 12:26 PM, Kalnichevski, Oleg wrote:

>> My suggestion would be to also investigate the possibility of 
>> HttpClient
>> being promoted (in Bugzilla only) to a "project" rather than a 
>> component
>> of commons, and also see about having the Bugzilla version updated.
>
> Eric,
> I think it's a brilliant idea. It does make sense that HttpClient gets 
> treated slightly differently than other peer Commons sub-projects due 
> to a higher volume of bug reports/feature requests we get. Out of 100 
> some open bug reports in Jakarta-Commons project 30 some are ours. 
> When first 3.0-alpha comes out, this number is quite likely to 
> increase substantially.
>
> Unfortunately, I do know how difficult that would be (if technically 
> feasible at all).
>
>>     As
>>       it is, it seems unfair to compare to JIRA with respect to this
>>      issue, because migrating to JIRA will apparently make HttpClient 
>> a
>>      "top" level project- thus comparing apples to oranges.
>
> I believe JIRA can assign a unique versioning scheme on a per 
> component (in Bugzilla parlance sub-project) basis. But you have a 
> point here, anyways.
>
> Oleg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Johnson [mailto:eric@tibco.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 18:09
> To: Commons HttpClient Project
> Subject: Re: JIRA vs Bugzilla issue
>
>
> Well, I'm not sure how I would recommend going on this decision.  So
> here is my attempt at providing a slightly biased (in favor of 
> Bugzilla)
> view of the facts.
>
> I looked at nagoya.apache.org, and checked out both the Scarab and 
> Jelly
> installations running there.
>
> Random observations:
>
>     * Bugzilla is designed for a "flat" product listing.  Currently
>       Apache Commons tools are listed as a component of Apache Commons,
>       rather than a top-level project like "Commons-HttpClient".  Were
>       this changed instead, all of the complaints about not being able
>       to establish coherent milestones and versions would go away.  As
>       it is, it seems unfair to compare to JIRA with respect to this
>       issue, because migrating to JIRA will apparently make HttpClient 
> a
>       "top" level project- thus comparing apples to oranges.
>     * Apache appears to be running Bugzilla 2.14.2.  Bugzilla is up to
>       2.16.4 for their stable build, and 2.17.6 on their testing
>       branch.  We use 2.16.4 at my office and I have no complaints with
>       it.  I know that there are some nice but subtle improvements with
>       the newer release(s).
>     * JIRA appears to be missing a nice feature of (the newer) 
> Bugzilla,
>       namely that when examining a bug from a list of bugs, you can
>       click Next and Previous to see other bugs, rather than having to
>       go back to the list view.  In Mozilla, this actually enables an
>       extra toolbar with next and previous buttons.
>     * JIRA has a significantly cleaner look and feel, most definitely.
>     * JIRA appears to have links to specific responses to issues/bugs.
>       Bugzilla doesn't have this - you can only link to the bug as a
>       whole, so far as I know.
>     * Scarab doesn't let an unregister user browse the reports.  This
>       pretty much shoots it down for use in a open source project, for
>       me.  I wonder if that is just the way that Apache has it 
> configured.
>     * Scarab appears to be much stricter about its access controls.  
> I'm
>       not sure whether the extra refinement just gets in the way.
>     * As far as the notification emails that JIRA sends out versus the
>       ones that Bugzilla sends, I like the ones that Bugzilla sends
>       better.  Far more compact (again a configuration issue?)
>
> My suggestion would be to also investigate the possibility of 
> HttpClient
> being promoted (in Bugzilla only) to a "project" rather than a 
> component
> of commons, and also see about having the Bugzilla version updated.
>
> -Eric.
>
> Kalnichevski, Oleg wrote:
>
>>> Is there an automatic way to move the current issues over to JIRA? 
>>> The open
>>> bugs are important, but the closed ones also contain a wealth of
>>> information.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I do not have all the details, but JIRA is believed to provide some 
>> sort of an automated migration path for existing Bugzilla 
>> installations. Anyways, if ALL existing bug reports cannot be 
>> retained, in my opinion, that would completely defeat the whole 
>> migration idea.
>>
>> I'll double-check the possibility of having existing reports migrated 
>> with the infrastructure folks, before the final decision is made.
>>
>> I'll keep you posted.
>>
>> Oleg
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rezaei, Mohammad A. [mailto:mohammad.rezaei@gs.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 15:24
>> To: 'Commons HttpClient Project'
>> Subject: RE: JIRA vs Bugzilla issue
>>
>>
>> Is there an automatic way to move the current issues over to JIRA? 
>> The open
>> bugs are important, but the closed ones also contain a wealth of
>> information.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Moh
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Oleg Kalnichevski [mailto:olegk@apache.org]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 6:41 AM
>> To: Jakarta Commons HttpClient mailing list
>> Subject: Re: JIRA vs Bugzilla issue
>>
>>
>> Folks,
>> What say you, do we migrate HttpClient issue tracking to JIRA or do 
>> we stay
>> with Bugzilla? Please let me know your opinion.
>>
>> Oleg
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 20:29, Oleg Kalnichevski wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Shall I apply? Any strong opinions to not migrate to JIRA?
>>>
>>> Oleg
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 20:01, Michael Becke wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes, I've been following that discussion as well.  I'm definitely
>>>> interested in making the switch to JIRA.  Bugzilla has served us 
>>>> pretty
>>>> well, but I find it somewhat unwieldy at times.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 13, 2004, at 11:44 AM, Kalnichevski, Oleg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> There's currently a rather animated discussion 'JIRA vs Bugzilla'
>>>>> going on the commons-dev mailing list. Personally I do not have a
>>>>> strong option on this issue. There's one thing, though, that makes 
>>>>> me
>>>>> bring it up here: we are facing the need to massively restructure
>>>>> Bugzilla content related to HttpClient due to the change of the 
>>>>> next
>>>>> release version from 2.1 to 3.0. (Funny enough, the way versioning 
>>>>> is
>>>>> handled in Bugzilla is being one of the most frequently mentioned
>>>>> motivators for migration to JIRA). My point here, if we ever 
>>>>> wanted to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> migrate to JIRA, now would be the right moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know what you think (let us not turn it into a religious
>>>>> war
>>>>> currently being waged on the commons-dev, though)
>>>>>
>>>>> Oleg
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ---
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>
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