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From Jeffrey Dever <jsde...@sympatico.ca>
Subject Re: Time for more mailing lists ?
Date Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:59:56 GMT
> single component mailing lists
> ------------------------------
> i think that single component mailing lists have not proved very 
> successful. 

I completely disagree.  As the HttpClient 2.0 release prime, I am 
disheartened that you feel that way.

> not only are they unpopular with the components themselves but they 
> are hard for outsiders to monitor. i (for one) have no idea about 
> what's happening in httpclient and i cannot effectively supervise them.

Please, subscribe to the httpclient list.  It would be no different for 
those who wanted all traffic to just subscribe to all lists.  You just 
have to subscribe once and thats it.  But for those who want to focus on 
particular components, there is no effictive way to do that on a single 
list.  Filtering is not effective as it relies on putting [name] in the 
subject, which is inadequate.

The other major benefit of list partitioning is the archives.  It sucks 
finding somthing particular in the archive of commons, or just browsing 
last weeks traffic, but is simple on a dedicated list.

If you are interested in HttpClient, and want to participate, please, 
just subscribe to the list.  You have the power.

> when we decided to push them out onto their own list, i thought that 
> all votes were supposed to remain on the main list. i don't recall 
> seeing any VOTEs on this list about new committers or about releases. 
> (i'm not saying that there's been any impropriety - just that if there 
> was, there's no way that i'd know.)

This was a grey area.  When HttpClient got back to critical mass where 
we could sustain our own votes, we started voting on our own. I think 
that this is just natural evolution.  We have been voting on releases, 
release plans, committers and are about to vote on some amendments to 
coding style.  We are doing our best to do everything right and you are 
just a link away from joining in: 

The best voting solution is not to merge httpclient traffic back to 
commons but to create a dedicated VOTE list.  Committers should be 
subsribed to as as part of account creation and contributors could 
subscribe to if they are interested.  Just think how nice that would be 
for the PMC folks trying to monitor what was going on without having to 
sort through 5000 messages a month.

> possible component groupings
> ----------------------------
> BeanUtils, CLI, Collections, Discovery, Lang, Logging should have 
> enough momentum to a become a viable core grouping.
> JXPath, jelly, betwixt, digester may be big enough to become a viable 
> xml grouping
> pool, DBCP could fit together into a cache group - but i think that it 
> would be too small to be viable.
> httpclient, latka, fileupload could fit together into a http group - 
> but again, probably too small

Logical or not, these groupings are arbitrairy.  Why enforce a grouping? 
 Give users the finest granularity possible, and then they can choose 
their own group of lists to join based on their interests.  And have 
trivial filtering to boot.  If you REALLY wanted to have groupings, you 
could compose them from the fine grained lists.  A meta list of lists as 
it were, where the meta list would subscribe to other lists and the 
users could subscribe to the meta lists or the fine grained lists as it 
suited them.

Jeff Dever

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