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From Andrew Purtell <apurt...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Solr & HBase - Re: How is Data Indexed in HBase?
Date Thu, 23 Feb 2012 19:22:01 GMT
I'd also make a comment on this:

> On Feb 22, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Jacques wrote:

> The key to keyword retrieval is the construction of the data.  Among other
> things, this is one of the key things that Solr is very good at: creating a
> very efficient organization of the data so that you can retrieve quickly.
> At their core, Solr, ElasticSearch, Lily and Katta all use Lucene to
> construct this data.  HBase is bad at this.

I can build an inverted index on top of HBase for some form of full text search. But it would
be like using assembler instead of Java or Ruby to build the server side of some website.
Unless scale forces hyper-optimization for the use case, ES or Solr is a better choice because
then one doesn't have to do all of the heavy lifting.

Also, it doesn't have to be an either-or choice. Projects like Lily and Solbase are interesting
hybrids.


Best regards,


    - Andy

Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. - Piet Hein (via Tom White)



----- Original Message -----
> From: Ian Varley <ivarley@salesforce.com>
> To: "user@hbase.apache.org" <user@hbase.apache.org>
> Cc: "hbase-user@hadoop.apache.org" <hbase-user@hadoop.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Solr & HBase - Re: How is Data Indexed in HBase?
> 
> One minor clarification:
> 
> HBase is primarily built for retrieving a single row at a time based on a
> predetermined and known location (the key).
> 
> Substitute that with: "HBase is primarily built for retrieving sets of 
> contiguous sorted rows based on a predetermined and known location (the start 
> key)". Scans are fundamentally just as efficient in HBase as gets, because 
> row keys are sorted. In fact, Get is just implemented as a 1-row Scan!
> 
> This is one of the nice design features that sets HBase (and similar stores) 
> apart from straight key/value stores; you can do range scans of rows.
> 
> Ian
> 
> On Feb 22, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Jacques wrote:
> 
> Solr does not provide a complex enough support to rank.
> I believe Solr has a bunch of plug-ability to write your own custom ranking
> approach.  If you think you can't do your desired ranking with Solr, 
> you're
> probably wrong and need to ask for help from the Solr community.
> 
> retrieving data by keyword is one of them. I think Solr is a proper
> choice
> The key to keyword retrieval is the construction of the data.  Among other
> things, this is one of the key things that Solr is very good at: creating a
> very efficient organization of the data so that you can retrieve quickly.
> At their core, Solr, ElasticSearch, Lily and Katta all use Lucene to
> construct this data.  HBase is bad at this.
> 
> how HBase support high performance when it needs to keep consistency in
> a large scale distributed system
> HBase is primarily built for retrieving a single row at a time based on a
> predetermined and known location (the key).  It is also very efficient at
> splitting massive datasets across multiple machines and allowing sequential
> batch analyses of these datasets.  HBase can maintain high performance in
> this way because consistency only ever exists at the row level.  This is
> what HBase is good at.
> 
> You need to focus what you're doing and then write it out.  Figure out how
> you think the pieces should work together.  Read the documentation.  Then,
> ask specific questions where you feel like the documentation is unclear or
> you feel confused.  Your general questions are very difficult to answer in
> any kind of really helpful way.
> 
> thanks,
> Jacques
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Bing Li 
> <lblabs@gmail.com<mailto:lblabs@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Mr Gupta,
> 
> Thanks so much for your reply!
> 
> In my use cases, retrieving data by keyword is one of them. I think Solr
> is a proper choice.
> 
> However, Solr does not provide a complex enough support to rank. And,
> frequent updating is also not suitable in Solr. So it is difficult to
> retrieve data randomly based on the values other than keyword frequency in
> text. In this case, I attempt to use HBase.
> 
> But I don't know how HBase support high performance when it needs to keep
> consistency in a large scale distributed system.
> 
> Now both of them are used in my system.
> 
> I will check out ElasticSearch.
> 
> Best regards,
> Bing
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:35 AM, T Vinod Gupta 
> <tvinod@readypulse.com<mailto:tvinod@readypulse.com>>wrote:
> 
> Bing,
> Its a classic battle on whether to use solr or hbase or a combination of
> both. both systems are very different but there is some overlap in the
> utility. they also differ vastly when it compares to computation power,
> storage needs, etc. so in the end, it all boils down to your use case. you
> need to pick the technology that it best suited to your needs.
> im still not clear on your use case though.
> 
> btw, if you haven't started using solr yet - then you might want to
> checkout ElasticSearch. I spent over a week researching between solr and ES
> and eventually chose ES due to its cool merits.
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Ted Yu 
> <yuzhihong@gmail.com<mailto:yuzhihong@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> There is no secondary index support in HBase at the moment.
> 
> It's on our road map.
> 
> FYI
> 
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Bing Li 
> <lblabs@gmail.com<mailto:lblabs@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Jacques,
> 
> Yes. But I still have questions about that.
> 
> In my system, when users search with a keyword arbitrarily, the query
> is
> forwarded to Solr. No any updating operations but appending new indexes
> exist in Solr managed data.
> 
> When I need to retrieve data based on ranking values, HBase is used.
> And,
> the ranking values need to be updated all the time.
> 
> Is that correct?
> 
> My question is that the performance must be low if keeping consistency
> in a
> large scale distributed environment. How does HBase handle this issue?
> 
> Thanks so much!
> 
> Bing
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Jacques 
> <whshub@gmail.com<mailto:whshub@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> It is highly unlikely that you could replace Solr with HBase.
> They're
> really apples and oranges.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 1:09 AM, Bing Li 
> <lblabs@gmail.com<mailto:lblabs@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> I wonder how data in HBase is indexed? Now Solr is used in my system
> because data is managed in inverted index. Such an index is
> suitable to
> retrieve unstructured and huge amount of data. How does HBase deal
> with
> the
> issue? May I replaced Solr with HBase?
> 
> Thanks so much!
> 
> Best regards,
> Bing
> 

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