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From "Jonathan Gray" <jl...@streamy.com>
Subject RE: Why windows support is critical
Date Mon, 01 Mar 2010 20:17:50 GMT
What are the issues with developing w/ HBase on Windows 7 x64?  I'm doing
that right now and nothing was any different from doing it on Windows XP
x86.

I haven't run it to the point of actually doing a start-hbase.sh, but rather
running things like HBaseClusterTestCase w/o a problem.

JG

-----Original Message-----
From: nocones77-groups@yahoo.com [mailto:nocones77-groups@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:48 AM
To: hbase-user@hadoop.apache.org
Subject: Re: Why windows support is critical

This is my first post to the group, so I'm not sure I have a lot to add to
the conversation yet. But I've been lurking/searching for a week now, and
wanted to add a "me too" to Ravi's comments.

The quick-start would be fantastic if it actually worked cross-platform and
did something meaningful. But I've been very 
frustrated by the problems just doing development on Windows 7 x64, 
which appear to have been experienced by others too but not fixed. Had I
understood how much of a pain this alone would be, I'd have contemplated
re-installing my OS, but this didn't become apparent until after several
days of struggle, and hindsight is 20/20.

I ended up creating a pseudo-distributed installation on Ubuntu in a 
Virtual Box. It all works fine from localhost, and I can run the shell. But
I don't see how that's useful to anyone who actually wants to build a real
application. I'm struggling to 
figure out how to "connect" to it from a remote Java client. The
documentation in this area seems to be sorely lacking, and the painfully
brief "Also note:" comment in the quick start doesn't seem to actually work.
(preemptive comment: yes, I know Virtual Box and can connect to the Ubuntu
machine in every other way I've tried)

Unlike Ravi, I'm confident that the time investment will pay off, and I am
viewing this as an opportunity to really understand what's going on under
the covers. I've been building large-scale (mostly SaaS) applications in
Java for 
over ten years and I'm very comfortable with Linux. But it has still been
difficult to get started with HBase. I'm making progress...but VERY slowly.
Like Ravi, I'm also working by myself, attempting to start something new,
and need to show progress ASAP. 

Anyway, the bottom line is that the initial learning curve of 
"bin/start-hbase.sh and start playing around" turned out to not work
cross-platform, and wasn't very very useful, even when it worked. I've
resigned myself to having to understand 
almost everything about the entire Hadoop+ZooKeeper+HBase architecture just
to do a meaningful "hello world" from a Java client. I 
understand why some might give up...

Neal




________________________________
From: Ravi <ravikapoor101@gmail.com>
To: hbase-user@hadoop.apache.org
Cc: Tim Robertson <timrobertson100@gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 5:24:48 PM
Subject: Re: Why windows support is critical


Tim, the only thing I can say to that is that the project needs to be 
able to grow to the size where it will become EC2 capable.

Essentially I represent 1-2 person startups in garages where time to 
market is probably one of the most important criteria. Environment setup 
time and learning curve are factors against widespread adoption for any 
software.


On 2/28/2010 11:54 AM, Tim Robertson wrote:
> For 2) if you look at slides 15,16,17 of
> http://www.slideshare.net/ghelmling/hbase-at-meetup you can see there
> are some nice higher level APIs popping up for HBase that help you
> deal with Objects and not Byte[].  That is open source and can be
> pulled from http://github.com/ghelmling/meetup.beeno which might be of
> interest.  There are others floating around as well that might be
> worth checking out.
>
> Isn't Windows used only for .Net development? (;
> I'd have thought that if a project is of sufficient size to consider
> HBase, then it is big enough that people would set up appropriate dev
> environments (Mac, Linux, or windows and use EC2 or something as the
> dev/test cluster).
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Ravi<ravikapoor101@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>> I understand that and I agree it cannot be used on windows in production.
>> However
>>
>> 1. I am talking about windows as a development environment.
>> 2. I am talking about ease of use of API provided
>>
>> These are two critical needs of any web application developer. Don't you
>> think?
>>
>> Ravi
>>
>>
>> On 2/28/2010 11:09 AM, Jeff Zhang wrote:
>>>
>>> But HBase is build upon hadoop which is not supposed to run on windows
as
>>> production environment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 8:01 AM, Ravi<ravikapoor101@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi everybody,
>>>>
>>>> I want to bring up a critical issue i.e. windows support. Today I
decided
>>>> to move away from hbase to mongoDB and I want to explain why and I hope
>>>> this
>>>> will help the hbase team understand needs of users like me and
ultimately
>>>> a
>>>> better product.
>>>>
>>>> I am an entrepreneur working on a web application. I do not have big
>>>> money
>>>> or big team. So while I am trying to move a mountain, I want the path
of
>>>> least resistance and want a DB that does not pose additional
challenges.
>>>>
>>>> Ultimately I found hbase to be more difficult to install and API to be
>>>> difficult to use on my windows machine (where I am doing the
>>>> development).
>>>> After struggling for a few days, I realize that I am losing steam and I
>>>> better choose a path of least resistance and I am switching to mongoDB.
>>>>
>>>> I do think that hbase is currently ahead. Mongo DB is missing a few
>>>> critical features for a large website. However if I lose steam, there
>>>> wouldnt be a website.
>>>>
>>>> So I request the hbase team to think if users like me and windows
>>>> development environment is important enough for the team. A one click
>>>> install on windows and mongoDB like driver would go a long way to
compete
>>>> with other DBs.
>>>>
>>>> I hope that helps
>>>> Ravi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>


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