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From Bradford Stephens <bradfordsteph...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: HBase mention in VLDB keynote
Date Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:36:28 GMT
Interesting. I need to see what sort of eval was going on for that
presentation...

He probably forgot to tweak GC :)

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Andrew Purtell <apurtell@apache.org> wrote:

> > Can we write him to figure more on how evaluation was done?
>
>
> This was one interaction with that group, maybe the only other one aside
> from a question about sizing memstore:
> http://osdir.com/ml/hbase-user-hadoop-apache/2009-07/msg00552.html
> Now I wonder if the eval was done via the REST gateway... A followup might
> be useful. If I run into someone from Yahoo Research here I'll ask.
> Otherwise we should try mailing them, yes.
>
> > Should we try and get into VLDB next year?
>
> We can certainly submit a candidate paper given a novel contribution of
> some kind which moves the state of the art forward. There are other venues
> besides VLDB also we can consider. Regardless, I think one of us should
> attend VLDB every year.
>
> > Any thing else interesting at the conference?
>
> Yes.
>
> ETH Zurich presented a system which tailors consistency to the needs of
> various data items -- "consistency rationing in the cloud: pay only when it
> matters" -- choosing eventual (session) consistency or pessimistic 2PC on
> demand according to a cost model, with good results. Made me think of
> possibilities with THBase. Also, I watched a demo of HIVE, something I
> hadn't see to date. Their query planner and mapreduce scheduler is
> interesting in concept and in detail. We're looking at Cascading for batch
> analytics on top of HBase instead, but knowing more about alternatives is
> always good.
>
> The Hadoop-y track is really tomorrow.
>
> Outside of direct relevance to things HBase I attended talks on aspects of
> data fusion, ETL, and complex event processing / stream processing, wearing
> my TM hat. Lots of good stuff here.
>
>   - Andy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Stack <saint.ack@gmail.com>
> To: "hbase-user@hadoop.apache.org" <hbase-user@hadoop.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 4:47:57 PM
> Subject: Re: HBase mention in VLDB keynote
>
> The same fella did keynote at apachecon eu on a similar topic.  Then he
> talked mostly of Sherpa/pnuts yahoo tech.   In that presentation we got no
> mention.  There the comparison strangely was to couchdb and perhaps
> Cassandra (iirc).
>
> So, mention is an improvement (do you think the kick up the behind I
> rendered him after his amsterdam talk could have had anything to do with
> it?).
>
> Can we write him to figure more on how evaluation was done?
>
> Should we try and get into vldb next year?
>
> Good stuff Andy.  Any thing else interesting at the conference?
>
> Stack
>
>
>
> On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:17 AM, Andrew Purtell <apurtell@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > In this keynote address here at VLDB 2009 (
> http://vldb2009.org/?q=node/22) Raghu Ramakrishnan, Yahoo! Research's
> Chief Scientist, made prominent mention of HBase, much to my surprise (and
> later chagrin). This happened near the end of the talk when a number of the
> new elastic/scalable/"nosql" storage systems were discussed to make concrete
> some of the architectural and data model points made earlier. The
> alternatives considered were Yahoo's PNUTS, sharded MySQL, HBase, and
> Cassandra. I don't know what version of HBase was used exactly but
> unfortunately the message was "not ready yet". Perhaps it was a
> configuration or provisioning issue but HBase did not really survive the
> evaluation, leading to short hyperbolic performance curves terminating on
> the far left of the various graphs. This was quite disappointing to see as
> the other alternatives were apparently successfully tested on what can be
> presumed to be the same resources. It stands to reason there
>  is opportunity for HBase to improve here if only we know what that is. It
> was also a little disappointing that it appears through a mailing list
> search that these issues were not brought to either hbase-dev@ or
> hbase-users@, only a minor question relating to the REST interface.
> Perhaps the community could have identified a specific configuration
> problem, recommended a correction for a deployment/provisioning error, or
> resolved a bug. To future evaluators of HBase, on behalf of the community I
> humbly request that you share you results, good or bad, so we can take the
> feedback, or the bug reports and their artifacts (logs, etc.) and improve
> our software.
> >
> > At least, the story has already changed from what was presented today --
> for example, the multimaster architecture of 0.20 was not presented, rather
> the older one (circa 0.19); and JG's/Ryan's performance test results for
> 0.20 stand as a contradiction. We should look into opportunities to produce
> a peer reviewed positive contribution. I think we have opportunities to take
> some novel approaches in the system itself and/or produce a novel vertical
> contribution and 0.20 is a good substrate for that.
> >
> > Though this was unfortunately a missed opportunity for a good showing for
> HBase in particular, the keynote in general was a well formulated
> introduction of the emerging area of "cloud scale" storage / "nosql" systems
> to the largest elite gathering of database and data processing researchers
> in the world. The presentation was importantly also a call for participation
> in the future development and directions of the new and growing "nosql"
> constellation. Such participation, whether it is specific involvement with
> the HBase project or not, would be and is most welcome as the problems of
> serving data at very large scale under "cloud" constraints is an area of
> both significant challenge and significant promise. HBase like other
> projects in this area are in an early stage of development. They cover the
> use cases of their creators but, as answers to the larger set of problems,
> they are not -- that space is untapped and only waiting for creativity and
> effort. I
>  think I can speak for HBase in particular, we welcome this and would be
> pleased to assist at every opportunity.
> >
> >    - Andy
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
http://www.roadtofailure.com -- The Fringes of Scalability, Social Media,
and Computer Science

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