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From Andrew Purtell <apurt...@apache.org>
Subject Re: HBase mention in VLDB keynote
Date Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:32:09 GMT
> Can we write him to figure more on how evaluation was done?


This was one interaction with that group, maybe the only other one aside from a question about
sizing memstore: http://osdir.com/ml/hbase-user-hadoop-apache/2009-07/msg00552.html 
Now I wonder if the eval was done via the REST gateway... A followup might be useful. If I
run into someone from Yahoo Research here I'll ask. Otherwise we should try mailing them,
yes.

> Should we try and get into VLDB next year?

We can certainly submit a candidate paper given a novel contribution of some kind which moves
the state of the art forward. There are other venues besides VLDB also we can consider. Regardless,
I think one of us should attend VLDB every year. 

> Any thing else interesting at the conference?

Yes. 

ETH Zurich presented a system which tailors consistency to the needs of various data items
-- "consistency rationing in the cloud: pay only when it matters" -- choosing eventual (session)
consistency or pessimistic 2PC on demand according to a cost model, with good results. Made
me think of possibilities with THBase. Also, I watched a demo of HIVE, something I hadn't
see to date. Their query planner and mapreduce scheduler is interesting in concept and in
detail. We're looking at Cascading for batch analytics on top of HBase instead, but knowing
more about alternatives is always good.

The Hadoop-y track is really tomorrow. 

Outside of direct relevance to things HBase I attended talks on aspects of data fusion, ETL,
and complex event processing / stream processing, wearing my TM hat. Lots of good stuff here.

   - Andy



________________________________
From: Stack <saint.ack@gmail.com>
To: "hbase-user@hadoop.apache.org" <hbase-user@hadoop.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 4:47:57 PM
Subject: Re: HBase mention in VLDB keynote

The same fella did keynote at apachecon eu on a similar topic.  Then he talked mostly of Sherpa/pnuts
yahoo tech.   In that presentation we got no mention.  There the comparison strangely was
to couchdb and perhaps Cassandra (iirc).

So, mention is an improvement (do you think the kick up the behind I rendered him after his
amsterdam talk could have had anything to do with it?).

Can we write him to figure more on how evaluation was done?

Should we try and get into vldb next year?

Good stuff Andy.  Any thing else interesting at the conference?

Stack



On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:17 AM, Andrew Purtell <apurtell@apache.org> wrote:

> In this keynote address here at VLDB 2009 (http://vldb2009.org/?q=node/22) Raghu Ramakrishnan,
Yahoo! Research's Chief Scientist, made prominent mention of HBase, much to my surprise (and
later chagrin). This happened near the end of the talk when a number of the new elastic/scalable/"nosql"
storage systems were discussed to make concrete some of the architectural and data model points
made earlier. The alternatives considered were Yahoo's PNUTS, sharded MySQL, HBase, and Cassandra.
I don't know what version of HBase was used exactly but unfortunately the message was "not
ready yet". Perhaps it was a configuration or provisioning issue but HBase did not really
survive the evaluation, leading to short hyperbolic performance curves terminating on the
far left of the various graphs. This was quite disappointing to see as the other alternatives
were apparently successfully tested on what can be presumed to be the same resources. It stands
to reason there
 is opportunity for HBase to improve here if only we know what that is. It was also a little
disappointing that it appears through a mailing list search that these issues were not brought
to either hbase-dev@ or hbase-users@, only a minor question relating to the REST interface.
Perhaps the community could have identified a specific configuration problem, recommended
a correction for a deployment/provisioning error, or resolved a bug. To future evaluators
of HBase, on behalf of the community I humbly request that you share you results, good or
bad, so we can take the feedback, or the bug reports and their artifacts (logs, etc.) and
improve our software.
> 
> At least, the story has already changed from what was presented today -- for example,
the multimaster architecture of 0.20 was not presented, rather the older one (circa 0.19);
and JG's/Ryan's performance test results for 0.20 stand as a contradiction. We should look
into opportunities to produce a peer reviewed positive contribution. I think we have opportunities
to take some novel approaches in the system itself and/or produce a novel vertical contribution
and 0.20 is a good substrate for that.
> 
> Though this was unfortunately a missed opportunity for a good showing for HBase in particular,
the keynote in general was a well formulated introduction of the emerging area of "cloud scale"
storage / "nosql" systems to the largest elite gathering of database and data processing researchers
in the world. The presentation was importantly also a call for participation in the future
development and directions of the new and growing "nosql" constellation. Such participation,
whether it is specific involvement with the HBase project or not, would be and is most welcome
as the problems of serving data at very large scale under "cloud" constraints is an area of
both significant challenge and significant promise. HBase like other projects in this area
are in an early stage of development. They cover the use cases of their creators but, as answers
to the larger set of problems, they are not -- that space is untapped and only waiting for
creativity and effort. I
 think I can speak for HBase in particular, we welcome this and would be pleased to assist
at every opportunity.
> 
>    - Andy
> 
> 



      
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