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From Josh Elser <els...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a Committer
Date Thu, 09 Nov 2017 21:31:48 GMT
Hey Csaba,

I think you might be falling into a common-trap :). A committer's 
"status" is often acquired via repeated contributions of code to a 
project -- you're absolutely right. This stems from the fact that, most 
times, people contribute to a project via code. Committership (for 
HBase) is commonly helping contributors do more without needing the help 
of others. Committership can also be looked at as a stepping stone 
towards PMC.

This discuss was more about how the HBase project acknowledges that 
contributions can come in various forms. As such, the path to "merit" 
doesn't have to only be achieved via code contributions. There's nothing 
wrong with this, from both an HBase and an ASF perspective. I think you 
have a good number of people here that would happily vote in the 
positive for individuals who contribute (in some of the ways listed 
below) to become a PMC member, charged with the guidance and health of 
the project.

In short, "committer" and "PMC" are really just plateaus given to folks 
in recognition of their contributions, regardless of form. What were 
trying to do was be more explicit about the various definitions of 
"contribution" we hold. Does this help clarify it?

- Josh

On 11/9/17 11:41 AM, Csaba Skrabak wrote:
> Wow, this list just made me think. Is the Committer status clearly a reward for contributing
in any way? Or is it a very pragmatic decision by the PMC that some fellow needs right to
commit? I think it's kind of both but the ratio should be clear and consensual.
> 
> People who answer questions, file issues, write blogs, demo applications and do stuff
that does not involve coding, they can continue helping the community just fine without a
Committer title. Maybe PMC could invent a Big Thank You event for them but not give the Committer
status. Or just give them a Committer status because why not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 21/09/17 22:41, "Misty Stanley-Jones" <misty@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> I feel like I inject this note into all discussions like this, but I'm
>> going to do it again. "Act like a committer" does not ONLY mean to produce
>> code for HBase. It means to support the project. This may mean any of the
>> following, plus a long list of other things I'm sure I'm not thinking of
>> right now:
>>
>> - Contribute to the docs (yay!)
>> - Help fix and improve testing
>> - Participate in release candidate votes, even if non-binding
>> - Review other people's work
>> - Help newbies
>> - Answer questions
>> - Update the website
>> - File issues
>> - Mentor new contributors of all sorts
>> - Give talks about HBase
>> - Write blogs about HBase
>> - Participate in design discussions
>> - Provide UX feedback
>> - Write demo applications
>> - Help us attract and retain a diverse community
>> - Interact with other projects in ways that benefit HBase and those other
>> projects
>>
>> I would personally consider all of these bullet points to be super
>> significant in "act like a committer" type discussions. I think that
>> contributing code is only one aspect. For some reason it seems to be the
>> most appealing aspect to lots of people, but IMHO that makes for a poor
>> community experience.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Mike Drob <mdrob@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>>   Hi folks,
>>>
>>> I've been chatting with folks off and on about this for a while, and was
>>> told that this made sense as a discussion on the dev@ list.
>>>
>>> How does the PMC select folks for committership? The most common answer is
>>> that folks should 'act like a committer' but that's painfully nebulous and
>>> easy to get sidetracked onto other topics. The problem is compounded
>>> because what may be great on one project is inconsistently applied on other
>>> projects in the ASF, and yet we are all very tightly coupled as communities
>>> and as project dependencies.
>>>
>>> Ideally, this is something that we can document in the book. Misty gently
>>> pointed out http://hbase.apache.org/book.html#_guide_for_hbase_committers
>>> but
>>> also noted that it's for what happens after somebody becomes a committer.
>>> Still, if the standard is "act like one until you become one" then it's
>>> useful reading for people. Also, there doesn't seem to be any guidelines
>>> like this for PMC.
>>>
>>> Is the list of prerequisites possible to articulate, or will it always boil
>>> down to "intangibles?" Is there a concern that providing a checklist
>>> (perhaps a list of items necessary, but not sufficient) will lead to folks
>>> motivated wrongly, similar to oft maligned "resume driven development?"
>>>
>>> I'll kick off the discussion by saying that my personal yardstick of "Can I
>>> trust this person's judgement regarding code/reviews" is probably too vague
>>> to be useful, and even worse is impossible for others to apply.
>>>
>>> Curiously,
>>> Mike
>>>

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