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From Stack <st...@duboce.net>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a Committer
Date Sat, 23 Sep 2017 22:07:52 GMT
Good discussion. Thanks Mike for kicking it off.

The Misty list is great.

I find myself giving double kudos for non-code or feature contribs; e.g.
stuff like test-fixing, patches that fix bugs found in production or
patches from operators that ease their day-to-day burden, voting on
releases, doc., (useful, encouraging, deep, helpful) review of the work of
others, etc. (I'd love it if someone took ownership of our website -- hint,
hint).

Sean has a dictum, paraphrasing, "...the fastest route to commitership is
doing what no one else wants to do" (Did I mangle that Busbey?), which I
like.

While Andrew may have misjudged Mike Drob's original intent, I appreciate
his rallying to the cause of the non-professional contributor and his
reaction to (mis-perceived) call for quantification (For a classic on the
problems that arise when hard-and-fast rules, see [2]). I'm with him
defending PMC right to give 'spirit' and 'gut' precedence over 'rules'
(Often, it *is* just a case of you know it when you see it). And as per
Andy, if perceived injustice or bias, please write here or private@hbase.

Lets keep dumping on this thread. We can then summarize and make it easy
for prospectives to find (can also add links to stuff such as the recent
Wang+Leblang talk at ApacheCon [1] and Andrew's write up for how to be a
committer on Hadoop as background).

Thanks,
St.Ack

1.
https://apachecon2017.sched.com/event/9zv3/a-tale-of-two-developers-finding-harmony-between-commercial-software-development-and-the-apache-way-andrew-wang-alex-leblang-cloudera
2.
https://books.google.com/books/about/Seeing_Like_a_State.html?id=PqcPCgsr2u0C





On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 4:08 PM, Zach York <zyork.contribution@gmail.com>
wrote:

> bq. As a
> relatively new member in the HBase community and a non-committer, once the
> new member decides that he/ she wants to become a Committer, it will be
> helpful to have a list of PMC members that he/ she can communicate with and
> get feedback from time to time. Feedback may include potential adjustments
> and rough idea about progress towards the goal.
>
> This sounds like a good idea! Ideally, if you interact with the community
> often enough, you should be building connections, but it nevers hurts to
> have someone to check how they perceive your work.
>
> bq. For others, having
> this list of volunteer mentors, will surely help.
>
> Again I agree. This part is especially important as it is hard to judge
> your progress if you don't have someone at the same company to converse
> with.
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Umesh Agashe <uagashe@cloudera.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thank you all for a good discussion here. Issues with both having and NOT
> > having documented specific criteria are well articulated here. As a
> > relatively new member in the HBase community and a non-committer, once
> the
> > new member decides that he/ she wants to become a Committer, it will be
> > helpful to have a list of PMC members that he/ she can communicate with
> and
> > get feedback from time to time. Feedback may include potential
> adjustments
> > and rough idea about progress towards the goal. Paid professionals who
> are
> > working with PMC members, can talk to their colleagues. For others,
> having
> > this list of volunteer mentors, will surely help. IMHO, this will make
> > process a bit more transparent. I would like to know your thoughts on
> this.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Umesh
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 1:41 PM, Misty Stanley-Jones <misty@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I feel like I inject this note into all discussions like this, but I'm
> > > going to do it again. "Act like a committer" does not ONLY mean to
> > produce
> > > code for HBase. It means to support the project. This may mean any of
> the
> > > following, plus a long list of other things I'm sure I'm not thinking
> of
> > > right now:
> > >
> > > - Contribute to the docs (yay!)
> > > - Help fix and improve testing
> > > - Participate in release candidate votes, even if non-binding
> > > - Review other people's work
> > > - Help newbies
> > > - Answer questions
> > > - Update the website
> > > - File issues
> > > - Mentor new contributors of all sorts
> > > - Give talks about HBase
> > > - Write blogs about HBase
> > > - Participate in design discussions
> > > - Provide UX feedback
> > > - Write demo applications
> > > - Help us attract and retain a diverse community
> > > - Interact with other projects in ways that benefit HBase and those
> other
> > > projects
> > >
> > > I would personally consider all of these bullet points to be super
> > > significant in "act like a committer" type discussions. I think that
> > > contributing code is only one aspect. For some reason it seems to be
> the
> > > most appealing aspect to lots of people, but IMHO that makes for a poor
> > > community experience.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Mike Drob <mdrob@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > >  Hi folks,
> > > >
> > > > I've been chatting with folks off and on about this for a while, and
> > was
> > > > told that this made sense as a discussion on the dev@ list.
> > > >
> > > > How does the PMC select folks for committership? The most common
> answer
> > > is
> > > > that folks should 'act like a committer' but that's painfully
> nebulous
> > > and
> > > > easy to get sidetracked onto other topics. The problem is compounded
> > > > because what may be great on one project is inconsistently applied on
> > > other
> > > > projects in the ASF, and yet we are all very tightly coupled as
> > > communities
> > > > and as project dependencies.
> > > >
> > > > Ideally, this is something that we can document in the book. Misty
> > gently
> > > > pointed out http://hbase.apache.org/book.html#_guide_for_hbase_
> > > committers
> > > > but
> > > > also noted that it's for what happens after somebody becomes a
> > committer.
> > > > Still, if the standard is "act like one until you become one" then
> it's
> > > > useful reading for people. Also, there doesn't seem to be any
> > guidelines
> > > > like this for PMC.
> > > >
> > > > Is the list of prerequisites possible to articulate, or will it
> always
> > > boil
> > > > down to "intangibles?" Is there a concern that providing a checklist
> > > > (perhaps a list of items necessary, but not sufficient) will lead to
> > > folks
> > > > motivated wrongly, similar to oft maligned "resume driven
> development?"
> > > >
> > > > I'll kick off the discussion by saying that my personal yardstick of
> > > "Can I
> > > > trust this person's judgement regarding code/reviews" is probably too
> > > vague
> > > > to be useful, and even worse is impossible for others to apply.
> > > >
> > > > Curiously,
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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