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From Andrew Purtell <apurt...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase
Date Wed, 16 Aug 2017 17:55:16 GMT
Thanks Mike. If htrace goes to the attic I would be inclined to support
removal. (Do we keep in branch-1 and below, remove in 2 and up, and
document the removal?) And we should bring this to the attention of the
Hadoop and Phoenix dev communities as well. Let me write a note to
dev@phoenix.



On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Mike Drob <mdrob@apache.org> wrote:

> HTrace committer reporting for duty...
>
> I think that HTrace is lacking momentum right now. If there's renewed
> interest in it, then somebody really needs to speak up. I've started an
> attic discussion on the list there, based on my recent experiences with the
> project, though.
>
> If you're interested, follow along or chime in at
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ff87eb11bbfc3ca27a83c0ab377459
> 767a46175447f763b1bf052987@%3Cdev.htrace.apache.org%3E
>
> Mike
>
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Andrew Purtell <apurtell@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Yes, tracing is built on HTrace so as long as the Hadoop, HBase, and
> > Phoenix builds include the same 'generation' of htrace, spans are
> available
> > at all of those layers.
> >
> > ​I guess the question (and implication) is we have zero confidence that
> > HTrace will ever be any good. That correct? HTrace is dead? If the answer
> > is yes, then I don't have an objection. If the answer is no, or maybe,
> then
> > I object to removing tracing support without a replacement of equal
> > viability.​
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:37 AM, Stack <stack@duboce.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Sean Busbey <sean.busbey@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Say we replaced it with brave for 2.0, Phoenix tracing through to
> hdfs
> > > > would be just as broken as if we pulled it out entirely, no?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > That is my understanding (Correct me if I am wrong but Phoenix does not
> > > show traces through hdfs [1]).
> > >
> > > St.Ack
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. https://phoenix.apache.org/tracing.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Aug 15, 2017 7:18 PM, "Nick Dimiduk" <ndimiduk@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Agreed that ripping with no replacement would be too extreme and
> > short
> > > > > notice for 2.0.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:14 PM Andrew Purtell <
> apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their users,
> > > > > > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would
be
> well
> > > > > > received.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The counter point to this more mindfulness on the part of HBase
> > devs
> > > to
> > > > > > interface compatibility impacts would go a long way. See
> > HBASE-18431
> > > > > > and PHOENIX-4076.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ripping out entirely the only tracing interfaces available is
a
> > more
> > > > > > extreme example, although not without cause. (The state of
> HTrace.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Nick Dimiduk <
> ndimiduk@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > IMHO, we should be actively pruning half-implemented, testless,
> > > > > ownerless
> > > > > > > code. HTrace queues up well for that chopping block. Long
back
> I
> > > > wanted
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > see this particular feature though, but I cannot volunteer
for
> > the
> > > > role
> > > > > > > currently. If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature
to
> their
> > > > users,
> > > > > > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would
be
> well
> > > > > > received.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I question the choice of HTrace as the tool for the job,
given
> > the
> > > > > > relative
> > > > > > > lack of activity in that project vs. the myriad alternatives
> out
> > > > there.
> > > > > > > HTrace has been incubating for 2.5 years, has seen only
5
> > releases,
> > > > > with
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > > release in the last 18 months. I haven't evaluated the
field
> in a
> > > > > while,
> > > > > > > but there's probably something with much more mature tooling
> and
> > > > > support.
> > > > > > > For instance, openzipkin/brave has much more activity more
> > > recently.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -n
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM Stack <stack@duboce.net>
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Andrew Purtell <
> > > > > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Doc update to indicate HTrace is unfinished is
fine.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We could do this. Update jar and doc it as broke.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Phoenix uses HTrace to support query tracing.
It "works".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Nit: I didn't think this was htrace. It was an old
version
> > pulled
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > > phoenix world where it lives storing to phoenix table
> reporting
> > > on
> > > > > > > > phoenix-only spans.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A colleague made
> > > > > > > > > a contribution to HDFS to fix a case where spans
could get
> > > > muddied
> > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > the WAL. We are carrying that patch on top of
2.7 for the
> > > moment
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > IIRC
> > > > > > > > > it's in 2.8.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Removing all of our HBase level spans doesn't
make sense to
> > me
> > > > when
> > > > > > > spans
> > > > > > > > > at HDFS level will not be removed, nor at the
Phoenix
> level.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The spans in hbase are just hanging until they get
the
> htrace-4
> > > > > revamp
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > the dots get connected.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We hollow out
> > > > > > > > > the middle. I think this is worse than leaving
things at a
> > half
> > > > > > > finished
> > > > > > > > > state. At least in the half finished state it
might get
> > > finished.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Nod.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What are the most pressing issues? I'm up for
supporting an
> > > > > "HTrace"
> > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > well. I'll need your (community) help for getting
patches
> > into
> > > > > Hadoop
> > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > need be.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > HTrace needs care and a viewer (zipkin I think now
it has
> come
> > > back
> > > > > > > alive).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > HBase needs a couple of narratives wired through.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ditto HDFS.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > St.Ack
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Stack <stack@duboce.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew
Purtell <
> > > > > > > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > -1 to removing HTrace from HBase.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Upgrade to the desired version, that
would be fine.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ​t​
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What you thinking Andrew?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not.
As is, we
> > mislead.
> > > We
> > > > > > give
> > > > > > > > off
> > > > > > > > > > the impression that hooking up hbase and
hdfs via trace
> > > tells a
> > > > > > story
> > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > request traversals when it at best you'd
get a wonky
> view.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need
work before
> we
> > > can
> > > > > > > suggest
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > our users this system is viable debugging.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What you reckon Andrew?
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > > S
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas
Penzes <
> > > > > > tamaas@cloudera.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know the actual integration
of HTrace 3.2
> > > into
> > > > > > HBase
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > far
> > > > > > > > > > > > from satisfying.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > This version of the library is
old, buggy, not really
> > > > > > maintained
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > migration to version 4.x is quite
hard (
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451)
> and
> > > > looks
> > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > task
> > > > > > > > > > > > is not getting much closer to
the goal.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > This is why I think we should
remove HTrace now and
> if
> > we
> > > > > still
> > > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > have some art of tracing (I think
it would be useful)
> > > then
> > > > > > start
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > > the baseline.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I have created a ticket for this
task:
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > > > > > > > > > > > The removal could be quite fast
and reach version
> 2.0.0
> > > > too.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What do you all think?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Tamaas
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk,
meaning
> torn
> > > > from
> > > > > > > > truth's
> > > > > > > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > > > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk,
meaning torn
> > from
> > > > > > truth's
> > > > > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from
> > > truth's
> > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Andrew
> >
> > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> > decrepit hands
> >    - A23, Crosstalk
> >
>



-- 
Best regards,
Andrew

Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
decrepit hands
   - A23, Crosstalk

Mime
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