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From Stack <st...@duboce.net>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] Merge Backup / Restore - Branch HBASE-7912
Date Wed, 12 Oct 2016 21:03:05 GMT
On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Stack <stack@duboce.net> wrote:

> Fails again when I do this:
>
> $ mvn clean install -DskipTests assembly:single
> ....
>
>
Ok. Works if I use mvn 3.3.x.
St.Ack





>
> [INFO] ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> [INFO] Building Apache HBase - Server 2.0.0-SNAPSHOT
> [INFO] ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> Downloading: file:/home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-server/src/main/site/
> resources/repo/org/apache/hadoop/hadoop-distcp/2.7.1/
> hadoop-distcp-2.7.1.pom
> Exception in thread "pool-1-thread-1" ------------------------------
> ---------------------
> constituent[0]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/aether-spi.jar
> constituent[1]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/maven-settings-builder-3.x.jar
> constituent[2]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/maven-artifact-3.x.jar
> constituent[3]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/commons-httpclient.jar
> constituent[4]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/wagon-provider-api.jar
> constituent[5]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/maven-core-3.x.jar
> constituent[6]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/aether-impl.jar
> constituent[7]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/sisu-inject-bean.jar
> constituent[8]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/sisu-inject-plexus.jar
> constituent[9]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/wagon-file.jar
> constituent[10]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/guava.jar
> constituent[11]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/maven-compat-3.x.jar
> constituent[12]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/maven-model-3.x.jar
> constituent[13]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/plexus-interpolation.jar
> constituent[14]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/commons-codec.jar
> constituent[15]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/aether-util.jar
> constituent[16]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/aether-api.jar
> constituent[17]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/maven-model-builder-3.x.jar
> constituent[18]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/maven-repository-metadata-3.x.
> jar
> constituent[19]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/maven-settings-3.x.jar
> constituent[20]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/plexus-component-annotations.
> jar
> constituent[21]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/commons-cli.jar
> constituent[22]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/maven-embedder-3.x.jar
> constituent[23]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/maven-plugin-api-3.x.jar
> constituent[24]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/wagon-http-shaded.jar
> constituent[25]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/commons-logging.jar
> constituent[26]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/plexus-sec-dispatcher.jar
> constituent[27]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/aether-connector-wagon.jar
> constituent[28]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/plexus-utils.jar
> constituent[29]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/sisu-guice.jar
> constituent[30]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/plexus-cipher.jar
> constituent[31]: file:/usr/share/maven/lib/maven-aether-provider-3.x.jar
> ---------------------------------------------------
> java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/apache/commons/lang/StringUtils
> at org.apache.maven.wagon.providers.file.FileWagon.resolveDestinationPath(
> FileWagon.java:206)
> at org.apache.maven.wagon.providers.file.FileWagon.
> resourceExists(FileWagon.java:265)
> at org.sonatype.aether.connector.wagon.WagonRepositoryConnector$
> GetTask.run(WagonRepositoryConnector.java:577)
> at org.sonatype.aether.util.concurrency.RunnableErrorForwarder$1.run(
> RunnableErrorForwarder.java:60)
> at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor.runWorker(
> ThreadPoolExecutor.java:1142)
> at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.run(
> ThreadPoolExecutor.java:617)
> at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:745)
> Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.commons.lang.
> StringUtils
> at org.codehaus.plexus.classworlds.strategy.SelfFirstStrategy.loadClass(
> SelfFirstStrategy.java:50)
> at org.codehaus.plexus.classworlds.realm.ClassRealm.
> unsynchronizedLoadClass(ClassRealm.java:259)
> at org.codehaus.plexus.classworlds.realm.ClassRealm.
> loadClass(ClassRealm.java:235)
> at org.codehaus.plexus.classworlds.realm.ClassRealm.
> loadClass(ClassRealm.java:227)
> ... 7 more
> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError:
> org/apache/commons/lang/StringUtils
> at org.apache.maven.wagon.providers.file.FileWagon.resolveDestinationPath(
> FileWagon.java:206)
> at org.apache.maven.wagon.providers.file.FileWagon.
> resourceExists(FileWagon.java:265)
> at org.sonatype.aether.connector.wagon.WagonRepositoryConnector$
> GetTask.run(WagonRepositoryConnector.java:577)
> at org.sonatype.aether.util.concurrency.RunnableErrorForwarder$1.run(
> RunnableErrorForwarder.java:60)
> at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor.runWorker(
> ThreadPoolExecutor.java:1142)
> at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.run(
> ThreadPoolExecutor.java:617)
> at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:745)
> Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.commons.lang.
> StringUtils
> at org.codehaus.plexus.classworlds.strategy.SelfFirstStrategy.loadClass(
> SelfFirstStrategy.java:50)
> at org.codehaus.plexus.classworlds.realm.ClassRealm.
> unsynchronizedLoadClass(ClassRealm.java:259)
> at org.codehaus.plexus.classworlds.realm.ClassRealm.
> loadClass(ClassRealm.java:235)
> at org.codehaus.plexus.classworlds.realm.ClassRealm.
> loadClass(ClassRealm.java:227)
>
>
>
> Does it work for you lot? This is branch checkout.
>
> I want assembly to work so I can distribute the build around a cluster.
>
> Thanks,
> St.Ack.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 1:52 PM, Stack <stack@duboce.net> wrote:
>
>> I did a super-clean and recheck out. Now it works. Sorry for the noise.
>> St.Ack
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Vladimir Rodionov <
>> vladrodionov@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> checked out HBASE-7912
>>>
>>> ran:
>>>
>>> mvn clean install -DskipTests
>>>
>>> successfully.
>>>
>>> -Vlad
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Vladimir Rodionov <
>>> vladrodionov@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I usually use:
>>> >
>>> > mvn clean install -DskipTests
>>> >
>>> > and it works.
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Vladimir Rodionov <
>>> vladrodionov@gmail.com
>>> > > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Michael,
>>> >>
>>> >> you can try master + latest patch on HBASE-14123 (v29). No need to use
>>> >> HBASE-7912 branch. I will double check HBASE-7912.
>>> >>
>>> >> -Vlad
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Stack <stack@duboce.net> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> More info:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> stack@ve0524:~/hbase.git$ git checkout origin/HBASE-7912 -b 7912v2
>>> >>> Branch 7912v2 set up to track remote branch HBASE-7912 from origin.
>>> >>> Switched to a new branch '7912v2'
>>> >>> stack@ve0524:~/hbase.git$ java -version
>>> >>> java version "1.8.0_101"
>>> >>> Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_101-b13)
>>> >>> Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 25.101-b13, mixed mode)
>>> >>> stack@ve0524:~/hbase.git$ mvn clean install -DskipTests &>
>>> /tmp/out.txt
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ...
>>> >>>
>>> >>> St.Ack
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 12:29 PM, Stack <stack@duboce.net> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> > Interesting. When I try it fails w/ below:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > [INFO] 26 warnings
>>> >>> > 322 [INFO] ------------------------------
>>> >>> -------------------------------
>>> >>> > 323 [INFO] ------------------------------
>>> >>> -------------------------------
>>> >>> > 324 [ERROR] COMPILATION ERROR :
>>> >>> > 325 [INFO] ------------------------------
>>> >>> -------------------------------
>>> >>> > 326 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV2/RowIndexCodecV2.j
>>> ava:[48,8]
>>> >>> > org.apache.hadoop.hbase.io.encoding.rowindexV2.RowIndexCodecV2 is
>>> not
>>> >>> > abstract and does not override abstract method createSeeker(org.ap
>>> >>> >  ache.hadoop.hbase.CellComparator,org.apache.hadoop.hbase.io.
>>> >>> encoding.HFileBlockDecodingContext)
>>> >>> > in org.apache.hadoop.hbase.io.encoding.DataBlockEncoder
>>> >>> > 327 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV2/RowIndexCodecV2.j
>>> >>> ava:[143,3]
>>> >>> > method does not override or implement a method from a supertype
>>> >>> > 328 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV2/RowIndexCodecV2.j
>>> >>> ava:[147,29]
>>> >>> > incompatible types: java.nio.ByteBuffer cannot be converted to
>>> >>> > org.apache.hadoop.hbase.nio.ByteBuff
>>> >>> > 329 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV2/RowIndexCodecV2.j
>>> >>> ava:[148,33]
>>> >>> > cannot find symbol
>>> >>> > 330   symbol:   method getKeyDeepCopy()
>>> >>> > 331   location: variable seeker of type org.apache.hadoop.hbase.io
>>> .
>>> >>> > encoding.DataBlockEncoder.EncodedSeeker
>>> >>> > 332 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV2/RowIndexCodecV2.j
>>> >>> ava:[153,3]
>>> >>> > method does not override or implement a method from a supertype
>>> >>> > 333 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV1/RowIndexCodecV1.j
>>> ava:[45,8]
>>> >>> > org.apache.hadoop.hbase.io.encoding.rowindexV1.RowIndexCodecV1 is
>>> not
>>> >>> > abstract and does not override abstract method createSeeker(org.ap
>>> >>> >  ache.hadoop.hbase.CellComparator,org.apache.hadoop.hbase.io.
>>> >>> encoding.HFileBlockDecodingContext)
>>> >>> > in org.apache.hadoop.hbase.io.encoding.DataBlockEncoder
>>> >>> > 334 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV1/RowIndexCodecV1.j
>>> >>> ava:[145,3]
>>> >>> > method does not override or implement a method from a supertype
>>> >>> > 335 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV1/RowIndexCodecV1.j
>>> >>> ava:[158,3]
>>> >>> > method does not override or implement a method from a supertype
>>> >>> > 336 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV2/RowIndexSeekerV2.
>>> >>> java:[46,8]
>>> >>> > org.apache.hadoop.hbase.io.encoding.rowindexV2.RowIndexSeekerV2
>>> is not
>>> >>> > abstract and does not override abstract method compareKey(org.ap
>>> >>> >  ache.hadoop.hbase.CellComparator,org.apache.hadoop.hbase.Cell) in
>>> >>> > org.apache.hadoop.hbase.io.encoding.DataBlockEncoder.EncodedSeeker
>>> >>> > 337 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV2/RowIndexSeekerV2.
>>> >>> java:[79,3]
>>> >>> > method does not override or implement a method from a supertype
>>> >>> > 338 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV2/RowIndexSeekerV2.
>>> >>> java:[117,3]
>>> >>> > method does not override or implement a method from a supertype
>>> >>> > 339 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV2/RowIndexSeekerV2.
>>> >>> java:[190,3]
>>> >>> > method does not override or implement a method from a supertype
>>> >>> > 340 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV2/RowIndexSeekerV2.
>>> >>> java:[214,3]
>>> >>> > method does not override or implement a method from a supertype
>>> >>> > 341 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV2/RowIndexSeekerV2.
>>> >>> java:[349,3]
>>> >>> > method does not override or implement a method from a supertype
>>> >>> > 342 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV2/RowIndexSeekerV2.
>>> >>> java:[355,3]
>>> >>> > method does not override or implement a method from a supertype
>>> >>> > 343 [ERROR] /home/stack/hbase.git/hbase-common/src/main/java/org/
>>> >>> > apache/hadoop/hbase/io/encoding/rowindexV2/RowIndexSeekerV2.
>>> >>> java:[421,36]
>>> >>> > no suitable method found for uncompressTags(java.nio.
>>> >>> > ByteBuffer,byte[],int,int)
>>> >>> > 344     method org.apache.hadoop.hbase.io.TagCompressionContext.
>>> >>> > uncompressTags(java.io.InputStream,byte[],int,int) is not
>>> applicable
>>> >>> > 345       (argument mismatch; java.nio.ByteBuffer cannot be
>>> converted
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> > java.io.InputStream)
>>> >>> > 346     method org.apache.hadoop.hbase.io.TagCompressionContext.
>>> >>> > uncompressTags(org.apache.hadoop.hbase.nio.ByteBuff,byte[],int,int)
>>> is
>>> >>> > not applicable
>>> >>> > 347       (argument mismatch; java.nio.ByteBuffer cannot be
>>> converted
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> > org.apache.hadoop.hbase.nio.ByteBuff)
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > ....
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > St.Ack
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Apekshit Sharma <
>>> appy@cloudera.com>
>>> >>> > wrote:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >> @stack, it compiled for me.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Also tried few commands, and have to say, it's well designed from
>>> user
>>> >>> >> commands perspective.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 5:08 PM, Stack <stack@duboce.net> wrote:
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> > On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Vladimir Rodionov <
>>> >>> >> vladrodionov@gmail.com
>>> >>> >> > >
>>> >>> >> > wrote:
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > > Michael,
>>> >>> >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > Its in HBASE-7912
>>> >>> >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > This is tip of git log:
>>> >>> >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > commit a072f6f49a26a7259ff2aaef6cb56d85eb592482
>>> >>> >> > > Author: Frank Welsch <fwelsch@jps.net>
>>> >>> >> > > Date:   Fri Sep 23 18:00:42 2016 -0400
>>> >>> >> > >
>>> >>> >> > >     HBASE-16574 Book updates for backup and restore
>>> >>> >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > commit b14e2ab1c24e65ff88dd4c579acf83cb4ed0605e
>>> >>> >> > > Author: tedyu <yuzhihong@gmail.com>
>>> >>> >> > > Date:   Wed Oct 5 16:29:40 2016 -0700
>>> >>> >> > >
>>> >>> >> > >     HBASE-16727 Backup refactoring: remove MR dependencies
>>> from
>>> >>> >> HMaster
>>> >>> >> > > (Vladimir Rodionov)
>>> >>> >> > >
>>> >>> >> > >
>>> >>> >> > Thanks. I have that. I tried it and it doesn't compile for me.
>>> Does
>>> >>> it
>>> >>> >> > compile for you?
>>> >>> >> > Thanks,
>>> >>> >> > M
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > > -Vlad
>>> >>> >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Stack <stack@duboce.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > Which branch do I check out to try it? HBASE-7912 is not
>>> it. I
>>> >>> don't
>>> >>> >> > see
>>> >>> >> > > an
>>> >>> >> > > > HBASE-16727...
>>> >>> >> > > > Thanks,
>>> >>> >> > > > M
>>> >>> >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Vladimir Rodionov <
>>> >>> >> > > > vladrodionov@gmail.com>
>>> >>> >> > > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > The last patch is on review board:
>>> >>> >> > > > > https://reviews.apache.org/r/52748
>>> >>> >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Vladimir Rodionov <
>>> >>> >> > > > vladrodionov@gmail.com
>>> >>> >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > > >> How hard to put in an hbase-backup module?
>>> hbase-server
>>> >>> is
>>> >>> >> fat
>>> >>> >> > > > enough
>>> >>> >> > > > > > >> already. Could be done as a follow-up.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-16727?
>>> >>> >> > > > > > focusedCommentId=15531237&page=com.atlassian.jira.
>>> >>> >> > > > > > plugin.system.issuetabpanels:c
>>> >>> omment-tabpanel#comment-15531237
>>> >>> >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > > Can we do merge first? Then we can discuss separate
>>> module.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > > -Vlad
>>> >>> >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Ted Yu <
>>> >>> yuzhihong@gmail.com>
>>> >>> >> > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> Looks like the first quote was cut off.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> The original sentence was:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> bq. no mapreduce job launched from master or region
>>> server.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> mapreduce job is launched from the node where command
>>> line
>>> >>> >> tool is
>>> >>> >> > > > run.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Stack <
>>> stack@duboce.net>
>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > bq. launched from master or region server.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > What does this mean please? Has to be run from
>>> Master or
>>> >>> >> > > > RegionServer?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> Can
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > it be run from another node altogether?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Vladimir Rodionov <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> vladrodionov@gmail.com
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > >> mapreduce dependency has been moved to client
>>> side
>>> >>> - no
>>> >>> >> > > > mapreduce
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> job
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > 1. We have no code in the client module anymore,
>>> due to
>>> >>> >> > > dependency
>>> >>> >> > > > > on
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > internal server API (HFile and WAL access).
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > 2. Backup/ restore are client - driven operations,
>>> but
>>> >>> all
>>> >>> >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > code
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > resides
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > in the server module
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > How hard to put in an hbase-backup module?
>>> hbase-server
>>> >>> is
>>> >>> >> fat
>>> >>> >> > > > enough
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > already. Could be done as a follow-up.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > Thanks,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > St.Ack
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > 3. No MR in Master, no procedure - driven
>>> execution.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > 4. Old good MR from command-line.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > 5. Security was simplified and now only super-user
>>> is
>>> >>> >> allowed
>>> >>> >> > to
>>> >>> >> > > > run
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > backup/restores.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > 6. HBase Backup API was gone due to 1. Now only
>>> >>> >> command-line
>>> >>> >> > > > access
>>> >>> >> > > > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > backup tools.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > These consequences of refactoring has been
>>> discussed in
>>> >>> >> > > > HBASE-16727.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > -Vlad
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 1:31 PM, Ted Yu <
>>> >>> >> yuzhihong@gmail.com>
>>> >>> >> > > > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > Reviving this thread.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > The following has taken place:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > mapreduce dependency has been moved to client
>>> side -
>>> >>> no
>>> >>> >> > > > mapreduce
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> job
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > launched from master or region server.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > document patch (HBASE-16574) has been integrated.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > Updated mega patch has been attached to
>>> HBASE-14123:
>>> >>> this
>>> >>> >> > > covers
>>> >>> >> > > > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > refactor in #1 above and the protobuf 3 merge.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > If community has more feedback on the merge
>>> >>> proposal, I
>>> >>> >> > would
>>> >>> >> > > > love
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > hear
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > it.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Sean Busbey <
>>> >>> >> > > > > busbey@cloudera.com>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > I'd like to see the docs proposed on
>>> HBASE-16574
>>> >>> >> > integrated
>>> >>> >> > > > into
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> our
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > project's documentation prior to merge.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Ted Yu <
>>> >>> >> > > yuzhihong@gmail.com>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > > This feature can be marked experimental due
>>> to
>>> >>> some
>>> >>> >> > > > > limitations
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > such
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > as
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > > security.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > > Your previous round of comments have been
>>> >>> addressed.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > > Command line tool has gone through:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > > HBASE-16620 Fix backup command-line tool
>>> >>> usability
>>> >>> >> > issues
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > > HBASE-16655 hbase backup describe with
>>> incorrect
>>> >>> >> backup
>>> >>> >> > id
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> results
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > NPE
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > > The updated doc has been attached to
>>> HBASE-16574.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > > Cheers
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Stack <
>>> >>> >> > stack@duboce.net>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 7:43 AM, Ted Yu <
>>> >>> >> > > > yuzhihong@gmail.com
>>> >>> >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Are there more (review) comments ?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Are outstanding comments addressed?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> I don't see answer to my 'is this
>>> >>> experimental/will
>>> >>> >> it
>>> >>> >> > be
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> marked
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> experimental' question.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> I ran into some issues trying to use the
>>> >>> feature and
>>> >>> >> > > > > suggested
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > that
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> feature likes this needs polish else it'll
>>> just
>>> >>> rot,
>>> >>> >> > > > unused.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> Has
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > polish
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> been applied? All ready for another 'user'
>>> test?
>>> >>> >> > Suggest
>>> >>> >> > > > that
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> you
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > update
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> here going forward for the benefit of those
>>> >>> trying
>>> >>> >> to
>>> >>> >> > > > follow
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> along
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > who
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> are not watching JIRA change fly-by.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> It looks like doc got a revision -- I have
>>> to
>>> >>> check
>>> >>> >> --
>>> >>> >> > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > take
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> on
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> suggestion made above but again, suggest,
>>> that
>>> >>> this
>>> >>> >> > > thread
>>> >>> >> > > > > gets
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > updated.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Thanks,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> St.Ack
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Thanks
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Devaraj
>>> Das
>>> >>> <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > ddas@hortonworks.com
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Just reviving this thread. Thanks Sean,
>>> >>> Stack,
>>> >>> >> > Dima,
>>> >>> >> > > > and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > others
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > thorough reviews and testing. Thanks
>>> Ted and
>>> >>> >> Vlad
>>> >>> >> > for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> taking
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > care
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > feedback. Are we all good to do the
>>> merge
>>> >>> now?
>>> >>> >> > Rather
>>> >>> >> > > > do
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > sooner
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > than
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > later.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ______________________________
>>> __________
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > From: saint.ack@gmail.com <
>>> >>> saint.ack@gmail.com>
>>> >>> >> on
>>> >>> >> > > > > behalf
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > Stack
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > stack@duboce.net>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 1:18 PM
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > To: HBase Dev List
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] Merge Backup /
>>> >>> >> Restore -
>>> >>> >> > > > Branch
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > HBASE-7912
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Ted
>>> Yu <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> yuzhihong@gmail.com
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Mega patch (rev 18) is on HBASE-14123.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Please comment on HBASE-14123 on how
>>> you
>>> >>> want
>>> >>> >> to
>>> >>> >> > > > > review.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Yeah. That was my lost tab. Last rb was
>>> 6
>>> >>> months
>>> >>> >> > ago.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> Suggest
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > updating
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > it.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > RB is pretty good for review. Patch is
>>> only
>>> >>> >> 1.5M so
>>> >>> >> > > > > should
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> be
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > fine.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > St.Ack
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 12:15 PM,
>>> Stack <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> stack@duboce.net>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On review of the 'patch', do I just
>>> >>> compare
>>> >>> >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > branch
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > master or
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > is
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > there a megapatch posted somewhere
>>> (I
>>> >>> think
>>> >>> >> I
>>> >>> >> > saw
>>> >>> >> > > > one
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> but
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > it
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > seemed
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > stale
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > and then I 'lost' the tab). Sorry
>>> for
>>> >>> dumb
>>> >>> >> > > > question.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > St.Ack
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 12:01 PM,
>>> Stack
>>> >>> <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> stack@duboce.net
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Late to the game. A few comments
>>> after
>>> >>> >> > > rereading
>>> >>> >> > > > > this
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > thread
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > as a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > 'user'.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > + Before merge, a user-facing
>>> feature
>>> >>> like
>>> >>> >> > this
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> should
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > work
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > (If
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > this
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > is
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > "higher-bar
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > for new features", bring it on --
>>> >>> smile).
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > + As a user, I tried the branch
>>> with
>>> >>> tools
>>> >>> >> > > after
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > reviewing
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > just-posted
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > doc. I had an 'interesting'
>>> experience
>>> >>> >> (left
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> comments up
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > on
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > issue). I
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > think
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > the tooling/doc. important to get
>>> >>> right.
>>> >>> >> If
>>> >>> >> > it
>>> >>> >> > > > > breaks
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > easily
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > or
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> is
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > inconsistent (or lacks 'polish'),
>>> >>> >> operators
>>> >>> >> > > will
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> judge
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > whole
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > backup/restore tooling chain as
>>> not
>>> >>> >> > trustworthy
>>> >>> >> > > > and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > abandon
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > it.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Lets
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > not
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > have this happen to this feature.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > + Matteo's suggestion (with a
>>> helpful
>>> >>> >> starter
>>> >>> >> > > > list)
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> that
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > there
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > needs
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > be
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > explicit qualification on what is
>>> >>> actually
>>> >>> >> > > being
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > delivered
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > --
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > including a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > listing of limitations (some look
>>> >>> serious
>>> >>> >> > such
>>> >>> >> > > as
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> data
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > bleed
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > from
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > other
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > regions in WALs, but maybe I don't
>>> >>> care
>>> >>> >> for
>>> >>> >> > my
>>> >>> >> > > > use
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > case...)
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > --
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > needs
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > accompany the merge. Lets fold
>>> them
>>> >>> into
>>> >>> >> the
>>> >>> >> > > user
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> doc.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > technical
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > overview area as suggested so user
>>> >>> >> > expectations
>>> >>> >> > > > are
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > properly
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > managed
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > (otherwise, they expect the world
>>> and
>>> >>> will
>>> >>> >> > just
>>> >>> >> > > > > give
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> up
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > when
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > we
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > fall
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > short). Vladimir did a list of
>>> what
>>> >>> is in
>>> >>> >> > each
>>> >>> >> > > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > phases
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> above
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > which
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > would serve as a good start.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > + Is this feature 'experimental'
>>> >>> (Matteo
>>> >>> >> asks
>>> >>> >> > > > > above).
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > I'd
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > prefer
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> it
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > is
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > not. If it is, it should be
>>> labelled
>>> >>> all
>>> >>> >> over
>>> >>> >> > > > that
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> it is
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > so. I
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> see
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > current
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > state called out as a '...
>>> technical
>>> >>> >> preview
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> feature'.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > Does
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > this
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > mean
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > not-for-users?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > St.Ack
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:03 AM,
>>> Ted
>>> >>> Yu <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > yuzhihong@gmail.com>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Sean:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Do you have more comments ?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Cheers
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 1:42 PM,
>>> >>> Vladimir
>>> >>> >> > > > Rodionov
>>> >>> >> > > > > <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > vladrodionov@gmail.com
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Sean,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Backup/Restore can fail due to
>>> >>> various
>>> >>> >> > > > reasons:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > network
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > outage
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > (cluster
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > wide), various time-outs in
>>> HBase
>>> >>> and
>>> >>> >> HDFS
>>> >>> >> > > > > layer,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> M/R
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > failure
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > due
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> "HDFS
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > exceeded quota", user error
>>> (manual
>>> >>> >> > deletion
>>> >>> >> > > > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> data)
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > so
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> on
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > so
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > on.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> That
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > is impossible to enumerate all
>>> >>> possible
>>> >>> >> > > types
>>> >>> >> > > > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > failures
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > in a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> distributed
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > system - that is not our
>>> goal/task.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > We focus completely on backup
>>> >>> system
>>> >>> >> table
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > consistency
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > in a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > presence
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> any
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > type of failure. That is what I
>>> >>> call
>>> >>> >> > > > "tolerance
>>> >>> >> > > > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > failures".
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > On a failure:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > BACKUP. All backup system
>>> >>> information
>>> >>> >> > (prior
>>> >>> >> > > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > backup)
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > will
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> be
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > restored
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > and all temporary data,
>>> related to
>>> >>> a
>>> >>> >> > failed
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> session,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > HDFS
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > will
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > be
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > deleted
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > RESTORE. We do not care about
>>> >>> system
>>> >>> >> data,
>>> >>> >> > > > > because
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > restore
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> does
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > not
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> change
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > it. Temporary data in HDFS
>>> will be
>>> >>> >> cleaned
>>> >>> >> > > up
>>> >>> >> > > > > and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > table
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > will
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> be
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > in a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> state
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > back to where it was before
>>> >>> operation
>>> >>> >> > > started.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > This is what user should
>>> expect in
>>> >>> case
>>> >>> >> > of a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> failure.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > -Vlad
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > -Vlad
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 12:56
>>> PM,
>>> >>> Sean
>>> >>> >> > > Busbey <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> busbey@apache.org
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Failing in a consistent way,
>>> with
>>> >>> >> docs
>>> >>> >> > > that
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> explain
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > various
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > expected failures would be
>>> >>> >> sufficient.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 12:16
>>> PM,
>>> >>> >> > Vladimir
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> Rodionov
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > <vladrodionov@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Do not worry Sean, doc is
>>> >>> coming
>>> >>> >> today
>>> >>> >> > > as
>>> >>> >> > > > a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > preview
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> our
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > writer
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Frank
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > will be working on a
>>> putting
>>> >>> it
>>> >>> >> into
>>> >>> >> > > > Apache
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > repo.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Timeline
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > depends
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> on
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Franks schedule but I hope
>>> we
>>> >>> will
>>> >>> >> get
>>> >>> >> > > it
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> rather
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > sooner
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> than
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > later.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > As for failure testing, we
>>> are
>>> >>> >> > focusing
>>> >>> >> > > > only
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> on a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> consistent
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > state
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > backup system data in a
>>> >>> presence of
>>> >>> >> > any
>>> >>> >> > > > type
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > failures,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> We
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > are
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > not
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > going
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > to implement  anything more
>>> >>> >> "fancy",
>>> >>> >> > > than
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> that.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > We
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > allow
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > both:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> backup
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > restore to fail. What we
>>> do not
>>> >>> >> allow
>>> >>> >> > is
>>> >>> >> > > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> have
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > system
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> data
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> corrupted.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Will it suffice for you?
>>> Do you
>>> >>> >> have
>>> >>> >> > any
>>> >>> >> > > > > other
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > concerns,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> you
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > want
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> us to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > address?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > -Vlad
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at
>>> 10:56
>>> >>> AM,
>>> >>> >> Sean
>>> >>> >> > > > > Busbey <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > busbey@apache.org
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> "docs will come to Apache
>>> >>> soon"
>>> >>> >> does
>>> >>> >> > > not
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> address
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > my
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> concern
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > around
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > docs
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > at
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> all, unless said docs have
>>> >>> already
>>> >>> >> > made
>>> >>> >> > > > it
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> into
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> project
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > repo. I
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > don't
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> want third party
>>> resources for
>>> >>> >> using
>>> >>> >> > a
>>> >>> >> > > > > major
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> important
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > feature
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> project, I want us to
>>> provide
>>> >>> end
>>> >>> >> > users
>>> >>> >> > > > > with
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > what
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > they
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> need
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > get
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > job
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> done.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> I see some calls for
>>> patience
>>> >>> on
>>> >>> >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > failure
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > testing,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > but
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> appeal
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > us
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> having done a bad job of
>>> >>> requiring
>>> >>> >> > > proper
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> tests
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> previous
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> features
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > just
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> makes me more concerned
>>> about
>>> >>> not
>>> >>> >> > > getting
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> them
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > here. I
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > don't
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > want
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > set
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> yet another bad example
>>> that
>>> >>> will
>>> >>> >> > then
>>> >>> >> > > be
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > pointed
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > future.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> On Sep 8, 2016 10:50, "Ted
>>> >>> Yu" <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > yuzhihong@gmail.com
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > Is there any concern
>>> which
>>> >>> is
>>> >>> >> not
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> addressed ?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > Do we need another Vote
>>> >>> thread ?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > Thanks
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at
>>> 9:21
>>> >>> AM,
>>> >>> >> > > Andrew
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > Purtell <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> apurtell@apache.org
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > Vlad,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > I apologize for using
>>> the
>>> >>> term
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> 'half-baked'
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > in a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > way
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > that
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > could
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > seem a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > description of
>>> >>> HBASE-7912. I
>>> >>> >> > meant
>>> >>> >> > > > that
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> as a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > general
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> hypothetical.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at
>>> >>> 9:36
>>> >>> >> AM,
>>> >>> >> > > > > Vladimir
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > Rodionov
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > vladrodionov@gmail.com>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >> I'm not sure that
>>> >>> "There
>>> >>> >> is
>>> >>> >> > > > > already
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > lots
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > half-baked
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> code
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > branch,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > so what's the harm
>>> in
>>> >>> adding
>>> >>> >> > > more?"
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > I meant - not
>>> >>> production -
>>> >>> >> > ready
>>> >>> >> > > > yet.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> This
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > is
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > 2.0
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > development
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > branch
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > and,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > hence many features
>>> are
>>> >>> in
>>> >>> >> > works,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > not being tested
>>> well
>>> >>> etc.
>>> >>> >> I do
>>> >>> >> > > not
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > consider
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > backup
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > as
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > half
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > baked
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > feature -
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > it has passed our
>>> >>> internal
>>> >>> >> QA
>>> >>> >> > and
>>> >>> >> > > > has
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> very
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > good
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> doc,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > which
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > we
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > will
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > provide
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > to Apache shortly.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > -Vlad
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016
>>> at
>>> >>> 9:13
>>> >>> >> AM,
>>> >>> >> > > > > Andrew
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > Purtell <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > apurtell@apache.org>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > We shouldn't admit
>>> >>> half
>>> >>> >> baked
>>> >>> >> > > > > changes
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > that
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > won't
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> be
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> finished.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> However
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > this case the crew
>>> >>> >> working on
>>> >>> >> > > > this
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > feature
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > are
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> long
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > timers
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > less
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > likely
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > than just about
>>> >>> anyone to
>>> >>> >> > leave
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > something
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > in a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> half
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > baked
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > state. Of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > course
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > there is no
>>> guarantee
>>> >>> how
>>> >>> >> > > > anything
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> will
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > turn
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > out,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > but I
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > am
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > willing
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > take
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > a little on faith
>>> if
>>> >>> they
>>> >>> >> > feel
>>> >>> >> > > > > their
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > best
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > path
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > forward
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > now
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> is
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > merge
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > trunk. I only
>>> wish I
>>> >>> had
>>> >>> >> > > > bandwidth
>>> >>> >> > > > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > have
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > done
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > some
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > real
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > kicking
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > tires by now.
>>> Maybe
>>> >>> this
>>> >>> >> > week.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > (Yes, I'm using
>>> some
>>> >>> of
>>> >>> >> that
>>> >>> >> > > time
>>> >>> >> > > > > for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > this
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > email
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > :-)
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > but
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > I
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > type
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > fast.)
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > That said, I would
>>> >>> like to
>>> >>> >> > > > agitate
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > making
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > 2.0
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > more
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > real
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> spend
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > some
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > time on it now
>>> that
>>> >>> I'm
>>> >>> >> > winding
>>> >>> >> > > > > down
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > with
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > 0.98. I
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > think
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> that
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > means
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > branching for 2.0
>>> real
>>> >>> >> soon
>>> >>> >> > now
>>> >>> >> > > > and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> even
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > evicting
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > things
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> from
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > 2.0
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > branch
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > that aren't
>>> finished
>>> >>> or
>>> >>> >> > stable,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> leaving
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > them
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > only
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > once
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> again
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > master
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > branch. Or, maybe
>>> just
>>> >>> >> > evicting
>>> >>> >> > > > > them.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > Let's
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > take
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> it
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > case
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > by
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > case.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > I think this
>>> feature
>>> >>> can
>>> >>> >> come
>>> >>> >> > > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > relatively
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> safely.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > As
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> added
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > insurance,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > let's admit the
>>> >>> >> possibility
>>> >>> >> > it
>>> >>> >> > > > > could
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> be
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > reverted
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> on
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > 2.0
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > branch
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> if
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > folks
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > working on
>>> >>> stabilizing 2.0
>>> >>> >> > > decide
>>> >>> >> > > > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > evict
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > it
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > because
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > it
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > is
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > unfinished
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > or
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > unstable, because
>>> that
>>> >>> >> > > certainly
>>> >>> >> > > > > can
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > happen. I
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > would
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> expect if
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > talk
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > like
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > that starts, we'd
>>> get
>>> >>> help
>>> >>> >> > > > > finishing
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> or
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> stabilizing
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > what's
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > under
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > discussion
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > for revert. Or,
>>> we'd
>>> >>> have
>>> >>> >> a
>>> >>> >> > > > revert.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > Either
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > way
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > outcome
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> is
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > acceptable.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > On Wed, Sep 7,
>>> 2016 at
>>> >>> >> 8:56
>>> >>> >> > AM,
>>> >>> >> > > > > Dima
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > Spivak
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > dimaspivak@apache.org
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > I'm not sure
>>> that
>>> >>> >> "There is
>>> >>> >> > > > > already
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > lots
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > half-baked
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> code
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > branch,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > so what's the
>>> harm
>>> >>> in
>>> >>> >> > adding
>>> >>> >> > > > > more?"
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > is a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > good
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > code
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > commit
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > philosophy
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > fault-tolerant
>>> >>> >> distributed
>>> >>> >> > > data
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> store.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > ;)
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > More seriously,
>>> a
>>> >>> lack
>>> >>> >> of
>>> >>> >> > > test
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > coverage
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > existing
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > features
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > shouldn't
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > be
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > used as
>>> >>> justification
>>> >>> >> for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> introducing
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > new
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > features
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > with
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > same
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > shortcomings.
>>> >>> >> Ultimately,
>>> >>> >> > > it's
>>> >>> >> > > > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> end
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > user
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > who
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > will
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > feel
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> pain,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > so
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > shouldn't we do
>>> >>> >> everything
>>> >>> >> > we
>>> >>> >> > > > can
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > mitigate
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > that?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > -Dima
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > On Wed, Sep 7,
>>> 2016
>>> >>> at
>>> >>> >> 8:46
>>> >>> >> > > AM,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > Vladimir
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Rodionov <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> vladrodionov@gmail.com>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Sean,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > * have docs
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Agree. We
>>> have a
>>> >>> doc
>>> >>> >> and
>>> >>> >> > > > backup
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> is
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > most
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > documented
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > feature
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > :),
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > we
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > will
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > release it
>>> >>> shortly to
>>> >>> >> > > Apache.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > * have
>>> sunny-day
>>> >>> >> > > correctness
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> tests
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Feature has
>>> >>> close to
>>> >>> >> 60
>>> >>> >> > > test
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> cases,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > which
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> run
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> approx
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > 30
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> min.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > We
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > can
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > add more, if
>>> >>> >> community do
>>> >>> >> > > not
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> mind
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > :)
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > * have
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > correctness-in-face-of-failure
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > tests
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Any examples
>>> of
>>> >>> these
>>> >>> >> > tests
>>> >>> >> > > > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > existing
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > features?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > In
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > works,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > we
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > have a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > clear
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > understanding
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>>> >>> what
>>> >>> >> > > should
>>> >>> >> > > > be
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> done
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > by
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > time
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > 2.0
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> release.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > That is very
>>> close
>>> >>> >> goal
>>> >>> >> > for
>>> >>> >> > > > us,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > verify
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > IT
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > monkey
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> existing
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > code.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > * don't rely
>>> on
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>>> >>> >> > > > outside
>>> >>> >> > > > > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > HBase
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > normal
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > operation
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > (okay
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > advanced
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>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > We do not.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Enormous time
>>> has
>>> >>> been
>>> >>> >> > > spent
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> already
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > on
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > development
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > testing
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > feature, it
>>> has
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>>> >>> >> > > > > >> internal
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > tests
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>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > many
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> rounds
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> code
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > reviews
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > by HBase
>>> >>> committers.
>>> >>> >> We
>>> >>> >> > do
>>> >>> >> > > > not
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> mind
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > if
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> someone
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > from
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> HBase
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > community
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > (outside of
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>>> >>> will
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>>> >>> >> > > > the
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>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > but
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > it
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>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> takes
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > forever
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > wait for
>>> >>> volunteer?,
>>> >>> >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > feature
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> is
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > quite
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> large
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > (1MB+
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> cumulative
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > patch)
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > 2.0 branch is
>>> >>> full of
>>> >>> >> > half
>>> >>> >> > > > > baked
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > features,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> most
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > them
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > are
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > active
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > development,
>>> >>> >> therefore I
>>> >>> >> > am
>>> >>> >> > > > not
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > following
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > you
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > here,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Sean?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Why
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > HBASE-7912
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > is
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > not good
>>> enough
>>> >>> yet
>>> >>> >> to be
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> integrated
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > into
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > 2.0
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > branch?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > -Vlad
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 7,
>>> >>> 2016 at
>>> >>> >> > 8:23
>>> >>> >> > > > AM,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> Sean
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > Busbey <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > busbey@apache.org
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep
>>> 6,
>>> >>> 2016
>>> >>> >> at
>>> >>> >> > > > 10:36
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> PM,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > Josh
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Elser <
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > josh.elser@gmail.com>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > wrote:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > So, the
>>> >>> answer to
>>> >>> >> > > Sean's
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > original
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> question
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > is
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > "as
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > robust as
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > snapshots
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > presently
>>> >>> are"?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> (independence of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > backup/restore
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > failure
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > tolerance
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > from
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > snapshot
>>> >>> failure
>>> >>> >> > > > tolerance)
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > Is this
>>> just a
>>> >>> >> > question
>>> >>> >> > > > WRT
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > context
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > change,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> or
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > is it
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > means
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > for a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > veto
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > from you,
>>> >>> Sean?
>>> >>> >> Just
>>> >>> >> > > > trying
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > make
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > sure
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > I'm
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> following
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> along
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > adequately.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > I'd say ATM
>>> I'm
>>> >>> -0,
>>> >>> >> > > > bordering
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> on
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > -1
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > but
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > not
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> reasons
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > I
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > can
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > articulate
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > well.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Here's an
>>> >>> attempt.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > We've been
>>> >>> trying to
>>> >>> >> > > move,
>>> >>> >> > > > > as a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > community,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > towards
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > minimizing
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > risk
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > downstream
>>> >>> folks by
>>> >>> >> > > getting
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > "complete
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> enough
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > use"
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > gates
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > place
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > before we
>>> >>> introduce
>>> >>> >> new
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> features.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > This
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > was
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > spurred
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> by a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > some
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > features
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > getting in
>>> >>> >> half-baked
>>> >>> >> > and
>>> >>> >> > > > > never
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > making
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > it
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > "can
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> really
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > use"
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > status
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > (I'm
>>> thinking of
>>> >>> >> > > > distributed
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> log
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > replay
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> zk-less
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > assignment
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > stuff, I
>>> don't
>>> >>> >> recall
>>> >>> >> > if
>>> >>> >> > > > > there
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> was
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > more).
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > The gates,
>>> >>> >> generally,
>>> >>> >> > > > > included
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > things
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > like:
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * have docs
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * have
>>> sunny-day
>>> >>> >> > > > correctness
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> tests
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * have
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > correctness-in-face-of-failure
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > tests
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * don't
>>> rely on
>>> >>> >> things
>>> >>> >> > > > > outside
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > HBase
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > normal
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > operation
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > (okay
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > advanced
>>> >>> operation)
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > As an
>>> example,
>>> >>> we
>>> >>> >> kept
>>> >>> >> > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > MOB
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > work
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > off
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > branch
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > out
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > master
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > until it
>>> could
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>>> >>> >> > these
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > criteria.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > The
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > big
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > exemption
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > we've
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> had
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > this was the
>>> >>> >> > hbase-spark
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > integration,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > where
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > we
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > all
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > agreed
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > it
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > could
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > land in
>>> master
>>> >>> >> because
>>> >>> >> > it
>>> >>> >> > > > was
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> very
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > well
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > isolated
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > (the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > slide
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > away
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > from
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > including
>>> docs
>>> >>> as a
>>> >>> >> > > > > first-class
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > part
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > building
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > up
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> that
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > integration
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > has led me
>>> to
>>> >>> doubt
>>> >>> >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > wisdom
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > this
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > decision).
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > We've also
>>> been
>>> >>> >> > treating
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> inclusion
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > "probably
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> will
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > be
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > released
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > downstream"
>>> >>> branches
>>> >>> >> > as a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> higher
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > bar,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > requiring
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * don't
>>> >>> moderately
>>> >>> >> > impact
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > performance
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > when
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> feature
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > isn't
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > use
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * don't
>>> severely
>>> >>> >> impact
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > performance
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > when
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > feature
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> is
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> use
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * either
>>> >>> >> default-to-on
>>> >>> >> > or
>>> >>> >> > > > > show
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > enough
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> demand
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> believe
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > non-trivial
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > number of
>>> folks
>>> >>> will
>>> >>> >> > turn
>>> >>> >> > > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > feature
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > on
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > The above
>>> has
>>> >>> kept
>>> >>> >> MOB
>>> >>> >> > > and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > hbase-spark
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > integration
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> out
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > branch-1,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > presumably
>>> while
>>> >>> >> > they've
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> "gotten
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > more
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> stable"
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> master
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > from
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > odd
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > vendor
>>> >>> inclusion.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Are we
>>> going to
>>> >>> >> have a
>>> >>> >> > > 2.0
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> release
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > before
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > end
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> year?
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > We're
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > coming up
>>> on 1.5
>>> >>> >> years
>>> >>> >> > > > since
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > release of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > version
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> 1.0;
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> seems
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > like
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > it's about
>>> time,
>>> >>> >> > though I
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> haven't
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > seen
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > any
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > concrete
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > plans
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> this
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > year.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Presuming
>>> we are
>>> >>> >> going
>>> >>> >> > to
>>> >>> >> > > > > have
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> one
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > by
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> end
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > of
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > year, it
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > seems a
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > bit close to
>>> >>> still
>>> >>> >> be
>>> >>> >> > > > adding
>>> >>> >> > > > > in
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > "features
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > that
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > need
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > maturing"
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > on
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > the
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > branch.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > The lack of
>>> a
>>> >>> >> concrete
>>> >>> >> > > plan
>>> >>> >> > > > > for
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > 2.0
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > keeps
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> me
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > from
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > considering
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > these
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > things
>>> blocker
>>> >>> at
>>> >>> >> the
>>> >>> >> > > > moment.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> But
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > I
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > know
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > first
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > hand
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> how
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > much
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > trouble
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > folks have
>>> had
>>> >>> with
>>> >>> >> > other
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> features
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > that
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> have
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > gone
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> into
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > downstream
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > facing
>>> releases
>>> >>> >> without
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> robustness
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > checks
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > (i.e.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > replication),
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > and
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > I'm
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > concerned
>>> about
>>> >>> what
>>> >>> >> > > we're
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> setting
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > up
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > if
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> 2.0
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > goes
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > out
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > with
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> this
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > feature in
>>> its
>>> >>> >> current
>>> >>> >> > > > state.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > --
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Best regards,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >    - Andy
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Problems worthy of
>>> >>> attack
>>> >>> >> > prove
>>> >>> >> > > > > their
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > worth
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > by
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > hitting
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> back. -
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Piet
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > Hein
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > (via Tom White)
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > --
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > Best regards,
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > >    - Andy
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > Problems worthy of
>>> attack
>>> >>> >> prove
>>> >>> >> > > their
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> worth
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > by
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> hitting
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > back.
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Piet
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> Hein
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > (via Tom White)
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > --
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > > busbey
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >> >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >>
>>> >>> >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > > >
>>> >>> >> > > >
>>> >>> >> > >
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> --
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> -- Appy
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>

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