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From: Ted Yu <yuzhihong@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2016 07:43:26 -0700
Message-ID: <CALte62zAA9q11qtaU2MUTMPpAHosBTVRh4b3_qADgO+uGf75Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] Merge Backup / Restore - Branch HBASE-7912
To: "dev@hbase.apache.org" <dev@hbase.apache.org>
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Are there more (review) comments ?

Thanks

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Devaraj Das <ddas@hortonworks.com> wrote:

> Just reviving this thread. Thanks Sean, Stack, Dima, and others for the
> thorough reviews and testing. Thanks Ted and Vlad for taking care of the
> feedback. Are we all good to do the merge now? Rather do sooner than later.
> ________________________________________
> From: saint.ack@gmail.com <saint.ack@gmail.com> on behalf of Stack <
> stack@duboce.net>
> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 1:18 PM
> To: HBase Dev List
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] Merge Backup / Restore - Branch HBASE-7912
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Ted Yu <yuzhihong@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Mega patch (rev 18) is on HBASE-14123.
> >
> > Please comment on HBASE-14123 on how you want to review.
> >
>
>
> Yeah. That was my lost tab. Last rb was 6 months ago. Suggest updating it.
> RB is pretty good for review. Patch is only 1.5M so should be fine.
>
> St.Ack
>
>
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Stack <stack@duboce.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On review of the 'patch', do I just compare the branch to master or is
> > > there a megapatch posted somewhere (I think I saw one but it seemed
> stale
> > > and then I 'lost' the tab). Sorry for dumb question.
> > > St.Ack
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Stack <stack@duboce.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Late to the game. A few comments after rereading this thread as a
> > 'user'.
> > > >
> > > > + Before merge, a user-facing feature like this should work (If this
> is
> > > "higher-bar
> > > > for new features", bring it on -- smile).
> > > > + As a user, I tried the branch with tools after reviewing the
> > > just-posted
> > > > doc. I had an 'interesting' experience (left comments up on issue). I
> > > think
> > > > the tooling/doc. important to get right. If it breaks easily or is
> > > > inconsistent (or lacks 'polish'), operators will judge the whole
> > > > backup/restore tooling chain as not trustworthy and abandon it. Lets
> > not
> > > > have this happen to this feature.
> > > > + Matteo's suggestion (with a helpful starter list) that there needs
> to
> > > be
> > > > explicit qualification on what is actually being delivered --
> > including a
> > > > listing of limitations (some look serious such as data bleed from
> other
> > > > regions in WALs, but maybe I don't care for my use case...) -- needs
> to
> > > > accompany the merge. Lets fold them into the user doc. in the
> technical
> > > > overview area as suggested so user expectations are properly managed
> > > > (otherwise, they expect the world and will just give up when we fall
> > > > short). Vladimir did a list of what is in each of the phases above
> > which
> > > > would serve as a good start.
> > > > + Is this feature 'experimental' (Matteo asks above). I'd prefer it
> is
> > > > not. If it is, it should be labelled all over that it is so. I see
> > > current
> > > > state called out as a '... technical preview feature'. Does this mean
> > > > not-for-users?
> > > >
> > > > St.Ack
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:03 AM, Ted Yu <yuzhihong@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Sean:
> > > >> Do you have more comments ?
> > > >>
> > > >> Cheers
> > > >>
> > > >> On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Vladimir Rodionov <
> > > vladrodionov@gmail.com
> > > >> >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Sean,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Backup/Restore can fail due to various reasons: network outage
> > > (cluster
> > > >> > wide), various time-outs in HBase and HDFS layer, M/R failure due
> to
> > > >> "HDFS
> > > >> > exceeded quota", user error (manual deletion of data) and so on so
> > on.
> > > >> That
> > > >> > is impossible to enumerate all possible types of failures in a
> > > >> distributed
> > > >> > system - that is not our goal/task.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > We focus completely on backup system table consistency in a
> presence
> > > of
> > > >> any
> > > >> > type of failure. That is what I call "tolerance to failures".
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On a failure:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > BACKUP. All backup system information (prior to backup) will be
> > > restored
> > > >> > and all temporary data, related to a failed session, in HDFS will
> be
> > > >> > deleted
> > > >> > RESTORE. We do not care about system data, because restore does
> not
> > > >> change
> > > >> > it. Temporary data in HDFS will be cleaned up and table will be
> in a
> > > >> state
> > > >> > back to where it was before operation started.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > This is what user should expect in case of a failure.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > -Vlad
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > -Vlad
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Sean Busbey <busbey@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > Failing in a consistent way, with docs that explain the various
> > > >> > > expected failures would be sufficient.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Vladimir Rodionov
> > > >> > > <vladrodionov@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > > > Do not worry Sean, doc is coming today as a preview and our
> > writer
> > > >> > Frank
> > > >> > > > will be working on a putting  it into Apache repo. Timeline
> > > depends
> > > >> on
> > > >> > > > Franks schedule but I hope we will get it rather sooner than
> > > later.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > As for failure testing, we are focusing only on a consistent
> > state
> > > >> of
> > > >> > > > backup system data in a presence of any type of failures, We
> are
> > > not
> > > >> > > going
> > > >> > > > to implement  anything more "fancy", than that. We allow both:
> > > >> backup
> > > >> > and
> > > >> > > > restore to fail. What we do not allow is to have system data
> > > >> corrupted.
> > > >> > > > Will it suffice for you? Do you have any other concerns, you
> > want
> > > >> us to
> > > >> > > > address?
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > -Vlad
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Sean Busbey <
> busbey@apache.org
> > >
> > > >> > wrote:
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >> "docs will come to Apache soon" does not address my concern
> > > around
> > > >> > docs
> > > >> > > at
> > > >> > > >> all, unless said docs have already made it into the project
> > > repo. I
> > > >> > > don't
> > > >> > > >> want third party resources for using a major and important
> > > feature
> > > >> of
> > > >> > > the
> > > >> > > >> project, I want us to provide end users with what they need
> to
> > > get
> > > >> the
> > > >> > > job
> > > >> > > >> done.
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> I see some calls for patience on the failure testing, but the
> > > >> appeal
> > > >> > to
> > > >> > > us
> > > >> > > >> having done a bad job of requiring proper tests of previous
> > > >> features
> > > >> > > just
> > > >> > > >> makes me more concerned about not getting them here. I don't
> > want
> > > >> to
> > > >> > set
> > > >> > > >> yet another bad example that will then be pointed to in the
> > > future.
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> On Sep 8, 2016 10:50, "Ted Yu" <yuzhihong@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> > Is there any concern which is not addressed ?
> > > >> > > >> >
> > > >> > > >> > Do we need another Vote thread ?
> > > >> > > >> >
> > > >> > > >> > Thanks
> > > >> > > >> >
> > > >> > > >> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Andrew Purtell <
> > > >> apurtell@apache.org
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > >> > wrote:
> > > >> > > >> >
> > > >> > > >> > > Vlad,
> > > >> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > >> > > I apologize for using the term 'half-baked' in a way that
> > > could
> > > >> > > seem a
> > > >> > > >> > > description of HBASE-7912. I meant that as a general
> > > >> hypothetical.
> > > >> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > >> > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Vladimir Rodionov <
> > > >> > > >> > vladrodionov@gmail.com>
> > > >> > > >> > > wrote:
> > > >> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > >> I'm not sure that "There is already lots of
> half-baked
> > > >> code
> > > >> > in
> > > >> > > the
> > > >> > > >> > > > branch,
> > > >> > > >> > > > so what's the harm in adding more?"
> > > >> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > I meant - not production - ready yet. This is 2.0
> > > development
> > > >> > > branch
> > > >> > > >> > and,
> > > >> > > >> > > > hence many features are in works,
> > > >> > > >> > > > not being tested well etc. I do not consider backup as
> > half
> > > >> > baked
> > > >> > > >> > > feature -
> > > >> > > >> > > > it has passed our internal QA and has very good doc,
> > which
> > > we
> > > >> > will
> > > >> > > >> > > provide
> > > >> > > >> > > > to Apache shortly.
> > > >> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > -Vlad
> > > >> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Andrew Purtell <
> > > >> > > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > >> > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > >> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > We shouldn't admit half baked changes that won't be
> > > >> finished.
> > > >> > > >> However
> > > >> > > >> > > in
> > > >> > > >> > > > > this case the crew working on this feature are long
> > > timers
> > > >> and
> > > >> > > less
> > > >> > > >> > > > likely
> > > >> > > >> > > > > than just about anyone to leave something in a half
> > baked
> > > >> > > state. Of
> > > >> > > >> > > > course
> > > >> > > >> > > > > there is no guarantee how anything will turn out,
> but I
> > > am
> > > >> > > willing
> > > >> > > >> to
> > > >> > > >> > > > take
> > > >> > > >> > > > > a little on faith if they feel their best path
> forward
> > > now
> > > >> is
> > > >> > to
> > > >> > > >> > merge
> > > >> > > >> > > to
> > > >> > > >> > > > > trunk. I only wish I had bandwidth to have done some
> > real
> > > >> > > kicking
> > > >> > > >> of
> > > >> > > >> > > the
> > > >> > > >> > > > > tires by now. Maybe this week.
> > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > (Yes, I'm using some of that time for this email :-)
> > but
> > > I
> > > >> > type
> > > >> > > >> > fast.)
> > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > That said, I would like to agitate for making 2.0
> more
> > > real
> > > >> > and
> > > >> > > >> spend
> > > >> > > >> > > > some
> > > >> > > >> > > > > time on it now that I'm winding down with 0.98. I
> think
> > > >> that
> > > >> > > means
> > > >> > > >> > > > > branching for 2.0 real soon now and even evicting
> > things
> > > >> from
> > > >> > > 2.0
> > > >> > > >> > > branch
> > > >> > > >> > > > > that aren't finished or stable, leaving them only
> once
> > > >> again
> > > >> > in
> > > >> > > the
> > > >> > > >> > > > master
> > > >> > > >> > > > > branch. Or, maybe just evicting them. Let's take it
> > case
> > > by
> > > >> > > case.
> > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > I think this feature can come in relatively safely.
> As
> > > >> added
> > > >> > > >> > insurance,
> > > >> > > >> > > > > let's admit the possibility it could be reverted on
> the
> > > 2.0
> > > >> > > branch
> > > >> > > >> if
> > > >> > > >> > > > folks
> > > >> > > >> > > > > working on stabilizing 2.0 decide to evict it because
> > it
> > > is
> > > >> > > >> > unfinished
> > > >> > > >> > > or
> > > >> > > >> > > > > unstable, because that certainly can happen. I would
> > > >> expect if
> > > >> > > talk
> > > >> > > >> > > like
> > > >> > > >> > > > > that starts, we'd get help finishing or stabilizing
> > > what's
> > > >> > under
> > > >> > > >> > > > discussion
> > > >> > > >> > > > > for revert. Or, we'd have a revert. Either way the
> > > outcome
> > > >> is
> > > >> > > >> > > acceptable.
> > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Dima Spivak <
> > > >> > > dimaspivak@apache.org
> > > >> > > >> >
> > > >> > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > I'm not sure that "There is already lots of
> > half-baked
> > > >> code
> > > >> > in
> > > >> > > >> the
> > > >> > > >> > > > > branch,
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > so what's the harm in adding more?" is a good code
> > > commit
> > > >> > > >> > philosophy
> > > >> > > >> > > > for
> > > >> > > >> > > > > a
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > fault-tolerant distributed data store. ;)
> > > >> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > More seriously, a lack of test coverage for
> existing
> > > >> > features
> > > >> > > >> > > shouldn't
> > > >> > > >> > > > > be
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > used as justification for introducing new features
> > with
> > > >> the
> > > >> > > same
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > shortcomings. Ultimately, it's the end user who
> will
> > > feel
> > > >> > the
> > > >> > > >> pain,
> > > >> > > >> > > so
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > shouldn't we do everything we can to mitigate that?
> > > >> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > -Dima
> > > >> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Vladimir Rodionov <
> > > >> > > >> > > > > vladrodionov@gmail.com>
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > wrote:
> > > >> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Sean,
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > * have docs
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Agree. We have a doc and backup is the most
> > > documented
> > > >> > > feature
> > > >> > > >> > :),
> > > >> > > >> > > we
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > will
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > release it shortly to Apache.
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > * have sunny-day correctness tests
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Feature has  close to 60 test cases, which run
> for
> > > >> approx
> > > >> > 30
> > > >> > > >> min.
> > > >> > > >> > > We
> > > >> > > >> > > > > can
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > add more, if community do not mind :)
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > * have correctness-in-face-of-failure tests
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Any examples of these tests in existing features?
> > In
> > > >> > works,
> > > >> > > we
> > > >> > > >> > > have a
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > clear
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > understanding of what should be done by the time
> of
> > > 2.0
> > > >> > > >> release.
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > That is very close goal for us, to verify IT
> monkey
> > > for
> > > >> > > >> existing
> > > >> > > >> > > > code.
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > * don't rely on things outside of HBase for
> normal
> > > >> > operation
> > > >> > > >> > (okay
> > > >> > > >> > > > for
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > advanced operation)
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > We do not.
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Enormous time has been spent already on the
> > > development
> > > >> > and
> > > >> > > >> > testing
> > > >> > > >> > > > the
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > feature, it has passed our internal tests and
> many
> > > >> rounds
> > > >> > of
> > > >> > > >> code
> > > >> > > >> > > > > reviews
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > by HBase committers. We do not mind if someone
> from
> > > >> HBase
> > > >> > > >> > community
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > (outside of HW) will review the code, but it will
> > > >> probably
> > > >> > > >> takes
> > > >> > > >> > > > > forever
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > to
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > wait for volunteer?, the feature is quite large
> > (1MB+
> > > >> > > >> cumulative
> > > >> > > >> > > > patch)
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > 2.0 branch is full of half baked features, most
> of
> > > them
> > > >> > are
> > > >> > > in
> > > >> > > >> > > active
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > development, therefore I am not following you
> here,
> > > >> Sean?
> > > >> > > Why
> > > >> > > >> > > > > HBASE-7912
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > is
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > not good enough yet to be integrated into 2.0
> > branch?
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > -Vlad
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:23 AM, Sean Busbey <
> > > >> > > busbey@apache.org
> > > >> > > >> >
> > > >> > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:36 PM, Josh Elser <
> > > >> > > >> > > josh.elser@gmail.com>
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > So, the answer to Sean's original question is
> > "as
> > > >> > > robust as
> > > >> > > >> > > > > snapshots
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > presently are"? (independence of
> backup/restore
> > > >> > failure
> > > >> > > >> > > tolerance
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > from
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > snapshot failure tolerance)
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > Is this just a question WRT context of the
> > > change,
> > > >> or
> > > >> > > is it
> > > >> > > >> > > means
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > for a
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > veto
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > from you, Sean? Just trying to make sure I'm
> > > >> following
> > > >> > > >> along
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > adequately.
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > I'd say ATM I'm -0, bordering on -1 but not for
> > > >> reasons
> > > >> > I
> > > >> > > can
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > articulate
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > well.
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Here's an attempt.
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > We've been trying to move, as a community,
> > towards
> > > >> > > minimizing
> > > >> > > >> > > risk
> > > >> > > >> > > > to
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > downstream folks by getting "complete enough
> for
> > > use"
> > > >> > > gates
> > > >> > > >> in
> > > >> > > >> > > > place
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > before we introduce new features. This was
> > spurred
> > > >> by a
> > > >> > > some
> > > >> > > >> > > > features
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > getting in half-baked and never making it to
> "can
> > > >> really
> > > >> > > use"
> > > >> > > >> > > > status
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > (I'm thinking of distributed log replay and the
> > > >> zk-less
> > > >> > > >> > > assignment
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > stuff, I don't recall if there was more).
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > The gates, generally, included things like:
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * have docs
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * have sunny-day correctness tests
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * have correctness-in-face-of-failure tests
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * don't rely on things outside of HBase for
> > normal
> > > >> > > operation
> > > >> > > >> > > (okay
> > > >> > > >> > > > > for
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > advanced operation)
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > As an example, we kept the MOB work off in a
> > branch
> > > >> and
> > > >> > > out
> > > >> > > >> of
> > > >> > > >> > > > master
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > until it could pass these criteria. The big
> > > exemption
> > > >> > > we've
> > > >> > > >> had
> > > >> > > >> > > to
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > this was the hbase-spark integration, where we
> > all
> > > >> > agreed
> > > >> > > it
> > > >> > > >> > > could
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > land in master because it was very well
> isolated
> > > (the
> > > >> > > slide
> > > >> > > >> > away
> > > >> > > >> > > > from
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > including docs as a first-class part of
> building
> > up
> > > >> that
> > > >> > > >> > > > integration
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > has led me to doubt the wisdom of this
> decision).
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > We've also been treating inclusion in a
> "probably
> > > >> will
> > > >> > be
> > > >> > > >> > > released
> > > >> > > >> > > > to
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > downstream" branches as a higher bar, requiring
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * don't moderately impact performance when the
> > > >> feature
> > > >> > > isn't
> > > >> > > >> in
> > > >> > > >> > > use
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * don't severely impact performance when the
> > > feature
> > > >> is
> > > >> > in
> > > >> > > >> use
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * either default-to-on or show enough demand to
> > > >> believe
> > > >> > a
> > > >> > > >> > > > non-trivial
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > number of folks will turn the feature on
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > The above has kept MOB and hbase-spark
> > integration
> > > >> out
> > > >> > of
> > > >> > > >> > > branch-1,
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > presumably while they've "gotten more stable"
> in
> > > >> master
> > > >> > > from
> > > >> > > >> > the
> > > >> > > >> > > > odd
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > vendor inclusion.
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Are we going to have a 2.0 release before the
> end
> > > of
> > > >> the
> > > >> > > >> year?
> > > >> > > >> > > > We're
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > coming up on 1.5 years since the release of
> > version
> > > >> 1.0;
> > > >> > > >> seems
> > > >> > > >> > > like
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > it's about time, though I haven't seen any
> > concrete
> > > >> > plans
> > > >> > > >> this
> > > >> > > >> > > > year.
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Presuming we are going to have one by the end
> of
> > > the
> > > >> > > year, it
> > > >> > > >> > > > seems a
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > bit close to still be adding in "features that
> > need
> > > >> > > maturing"
> > > >> > > >> > on
> > > >> > > >> > > > the
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > branch.
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > The lack of a concrete plan for 2.0 keeps me
> from
> > > >> > > considering
> > > >> > > >> > > these
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > things blocker at the moment. But I know first
> > hand
> > > >> how
> > > >> > > much
> > > >> > > >> > > > trouble
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > folks have had with other features that have
> gone
> > > >> into
> > > >> > > >> > downstream
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > facing releases without robustness checks (i.e.
> > > >> > > replication),
> > > >> > > >> > and
> > > >> > > >> > > > I'm
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > concerned about what we're setting up if 2.0
> goes
> > > out
> > > >> > with
> > > >> > > >> this
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > feature in its current state.
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > --
> > > >> > > >> > > > > Best regards,
> > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > >    - Andy
> > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > > > Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by
> hitting
> > > >> back. -
> > > >> > > Piet
> > > >> > > >> > > Hein
> > > >> > > >> > > > > (via Tom White)
> > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > >> > > --
> > > >> > > >> > > Best regards,
> > > >> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > >> > >    - Andy
> > > >> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > >> > > Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting
> > back.
> > > -
> > > >> > Piet
> > > >> > > >> Hein
> > > >> > > >> > > (via Tom White)
> > > >> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > >> >
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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