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From Josh Elser <josh.el...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] Merge Backup / Restore - Branch HBASE-7912
Date Wed, 07 Sep 2016 16:35:39 GMT
So, given your stated concerns, Sean, the correctness-in-face-of-failure 
tests is the only WIP thing remaining that you'd like to see, right? Are 
there any other issues that you can think of now that would prevent you 
from +1'ing?

Regarding the move to a "higher-bar for new features" by the community, 
I'll stand back because I know that I have not been following closely 
enough to comment here. If this is a community decision that everyone is 
on board with, great. I honestly have not followed discussions closely 
enough to understand whether this is a "we'd like to do this" or "we are 
doing this".

This leads me to asking how can we address the concern on the amorphous 
state of what "HBase-2.0" and how to avoid this blocking contributions 
to 2.0. It seems like there's a chicken-and-egg problem with being 
unable to determine the expected level of testing while there's no 
concrete roadmap for 2.0. To me, it seems premature to raise the bar 
higher in this case (because there is no firm date where continued work 
must be completed by to avoid blocking the release), but, again, I type 
this with great hesitance (as I have not be diligent with my inbox).

Vladimir Rodionov wrote:
> Sean,
>
> * have docs
>
> Agree. We have a doc and backup is the most documented feature :), we will
> release it shortly to Apache.
>
> * have sunny-day correctness tests
>
> Feature has  close to 60 test cases, which run for approx 30 min. We can
> add more, if community do not mind :)
>
> * have correctness-in-face-of-failure tests
>
> Any examples of these tests in existing features? In works, we have a clear
> understanding of what should be done by the time of 2.0 release.
> That is very close goal for us, to verify IT monkey for existing code.
>
> * don't rely on things outside of HBase for normal operation (okay for
> advanced operation)
>
> We do not.
>
> Enormous time has been spent already on the development and testing the
> feature, it has passed our internal tests and many rounds of code reviews
> by HBase committers. We do not mind if someone from HBase community
> (outside of HW) will review the code, but it will probably takes forever to
> wait for volunteer?, the feature is quite large (1MB+ cumulative patch)
>
> 2.0 branch is full of half baked features, most of them are in active
> development, therefore I am not following you here, Sean? Why HBASE-7912 is
> not good enough yet to be integrated into 2.0 branch?
>
> -Vlad
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:23 AM, Sean Busbey<busbey@apache.org>  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:36 PM, Josh Elser<josh.elser@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> So, the answer to Sean's original question is "as robust as snapshots
>>> presently are"? (independence of backup/restore failure tolerance from
>>> snapshot failure tolerance)
>>>
>>> Is this just a question WRT context of the change, or is it means for a
>> veto
>>> from you, Sean? Just trying to make sure I'm following along adequately.
>>>
>>>
>> I'd say ATM I'm -0, bordering on -1 but not for reasons I can articulate
>> well.
>>
>> Here's an attempt.
>>
>> We've been trying to move, as a community, towards minimizing risk to
>> downstream folks by getting "complete enough for use" gates in place
>> before we introduce new features. This was spurred by a some features
>> getting in half-baked and never making it to "can really use" status
>> (I'm thinking of distributed log replay and the zk-less assignment
>> stuff, I don't recall if there was more).
>>
>> The gates, generally, included things like:
>>
>> * have docs
>> * have sunny-day correctness tests
>> * have correctness-in-face-of-failure tests
>> * don't rely on things outside of HBase for normal operation (okay for
>> advanced operation)
>>
>> As an example, we kept the MOB work off in a branch and out of master
>> until it could pass these criteria. The big exemption we've had to
>> this was the hbase-spark integration, where we all agreed it could
>> land in master because it was very well isolated (the slide away from
>> including docs as a first-class part of building up that integration
>> has led me to doubt the wisdom of this decision).
>>
>> We've also been treating inclusion in a "probably will be released to
>> downstream" branches as a higher bar, requiring
>>
>> * don't moderately impact performance when the feature isn't in use
>> * don't severely impact performance when the feature is in use
>> * either default-to-on or show enough demand to believe a non-trivial
>> number of folks will turn the feature on
>>
>> The above has kept MOB and hbase-spark integration out of branch-1,
>> presumably while they've "gotten more stable" in master from the odd
>> vendor inclusion.
>>
>> Are we going to have a 2.0 release before the end of the year? We're
>> coming up on 1.5 years since the release of version 1.0; seems like
>> it's about time, though I haven't seen any concrete plans this year.
>> Presuming we are going to have one by the end of the year, it seems a
>> bit close to still be adding in "features that need maturing" on the
>> branch.
>>
>> The lack of a concrete plan for 2.0 keeps me from considering these
>> things blocker at the moment. But I know first hand how much trouble
>> folks have had with other features that have gone into downstream
>> facing releases without robustness checks (i.e. replication), and I'm
>> concerned about what we're setting up if 2.0 goes out with this
>> feature in its current state.
>>
>

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