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From Ted Yu <yuzhih...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Criteria for including MOB feature backport in branch-1
Date Fri, 04 Mar 2016 01:52:57 GMT
Good questions, Enis.

If my bandwidth permits, I am planning to collect performance statistics
using ycsb against cluster with and without MOB feature enabled.

Cheers

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Enis Söztutar <enis.soz@gmail.com> wrote:

> Regardless of the backport, did we do the same regression analysis for the
> master branch merge at the time of the merge? Like make sure that the
> latencies and stability of non-mob is affected or not. Sorry, I was not
> following the merge vote closely.
>
> The reason I am asking is that although we can allow some flexibility in
> master, we still want to keep master releasable and prevent a 1-year effort
> to re-stabilize master when we want to release 2.0. If we have design /
> stability / impact questions, when and how they will be addressed for a 2.0
> release? Let's say that we would like to release 2.0 by summer time as
> Matteo was quoting, how do we make sure that the feature as is, is stable
> and supportable?
>
> Enis
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Andrew Purtell <apurtell@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Just to be clear, I did not actually oppose a backport of MOB. Although
> - I
> > have to say am sympathetic to Elliott's position that there's a project
> > management reason not to. My insistence here is "merely" for this change
> in
> > particular a backport to the branch we are making production releases
> from
> > demands a credible data driven assessment on stability, functionality,
> and
> > performance - both avoidance of regression and affirmative indication of
> > the alleged benefit.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Ted Yu <yuzhihong@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In the middle of writing response to this thread, I saw subsequent
> > comments
> > > from Andrew, Jon and Elliott.
> > >
> > > In light of opposition from the community w.r.t. backporting MOB
> > feature, I
> > > think it suffices to say that this wouldn't be done now.
> > >
> > > Thanks everyone for chiming in.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Elliott Clark <eclark@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just don't see a why we would back port. We're going to release a
> 2.0
> > > > when things are ready. It will be a major feature release. MOB is a
> > major
> > > > feature. Without compelling reason backporting to branch-1 seems like
> > an
> > > > end run around what sem ver is supposed to mean (not the api
> > guarantees,
> > > > the actual meaning).
> > > >
> > > > Backporting major features is a bad habit that the Hadoop community
> > seems
> > > > to have. We shouldn't follow their lead.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Stack <stack@duboce.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Ted Yu <yuzhihong@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > As requested by Sean Busbey, I am starting a new thread w.r.t.
> > > > > backporting
> > > > > > MOB feature to branch-1.
> > > > > >
> > > > > This is to solicit discussion on the criteria for including MOB
> > feature
> > > > > > backport in branch-1.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can think of the following:
> > > > > > 1. whether there is customer interest
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is.
> > > > > > See Jonathan's response here:
> > > > > http://search-hadoop.com/m/YGbbDSqxD1PYXK62
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > You should probably mention that a note requesting if there was
> > > interest
> > > > > got no response here on the public lists. This would seem to imply
> no
> > > > > interest by the community?
> > > > >
> > > > > Jon's note is pregnant but opaque on the details of these
> 'supported'
> > > > > deploys. He is in a bit of an awkward spot unable to share detail
> on
> > > > > someone else's deploy.
> > > > >
> > > > > Would be good to see more interest than Jon's note as evidence of
> > > > interest
> > > > > I'd say.
> > > > >
> > > > > You know of any? Even if they could be described in outline and
> > > hopefully
> > > > > more than one instance and that MOB makes sense for this deploy.
> And
> > > they
> > > > > need it now in a branch-1?
> > > > >
> > > > > Which version of hbase are we talking of backporting too? 1.3? 1.4?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2. whether unit test stability can be maintained in branch-1
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Inclusion of the backport should keep unit tests (both existing
> and
> > > > new)
> > > > > in
> > > > > > branch-1 green.
> > > > > > Preliminary test runs showed that MOB / snapshot related tests
> > > > > consistently
> > > > > > pass.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-15370?focusedCommentId=15176094&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-15176094
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hopefully we are aiming for more than just 'test stability'. Some
> > large
> > > > > community users have placed big bets on branch-1 being stable at
> > scale;
> > > > > this is the stability we should be precious of -- not just 'test
> > > > > stability'.
> > > > >
> > > > > Besides, I see failures in your listing. MOB is pervasive. Why is
> it
> > > not
> > > > > responsible for the mentioned test failures? (And "... passes on
my
> > > local
> > > > > machine... " doesn't cut it; builds.apache.org is our public CI
> > where
> > > > > community comes together on state of branch and master, not some
> devs
> > > > > laptop).
> > > > >
> > > > > Branch-1 builds have been generally stable after large investment
> > > fixing,
> > > > > tuning and pruning tests. Master branch had been rendered stable
> but
> > > > seems
> > > > > to be rotting again though it is the most important of our builds
> > given
> > > > it
> > > > > can catch the bad stuff before the commits make it in. During the
> > > > campaign
> > > > > to stabilize Master, MOB tests failed often. I see MOB failures in
> > > master
> > > > > patch build from time to time still (I've been lax of late but our
> > > > flakies
> > > > > list contains a few mentionds, see HBASE-15012). They go
> unaddressed
> > > > > (though, to be fair, Jingcheng, the original author, addressed a
> few
> > > > > failures early on when asked). Just this morning I note:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://builds.apache.org/view/H-L/view/HBase/job/PreCommit-HBASE-Build/818/testReport/junit/org.apache.hadoop.hbase.mob.mapreduce/TestMobSweepMapper/org_apache_hadoop_hbase_mob_mapreduce_TestMobSweepMapper/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > (Suggestion: MOB seems to be better in master branch of late --
> > Matteo
> > > > and
> > > > > Heng work I believe (or just my disabling of broke tests) -- so a
> > > review
> > > > > and report of master and patch builds looking for MOB failures and
> > > fixing
> > > > > any found would help address the above concern. Another way to
> build
> > > > > confidence in a patched branch-1 would be doing the branch
> suggested
> > up
> > > > in
> > > > > the backport issue and then running builds on apache for a period.
> Or
> > > > > better, copy what was done by Jon et al. to build confidence; run
> > > > > long-running ITBLLs on a cluster w/ MOB set with obnoxious configs
> > and
> > > > post
> > > > > evidence it all holds up).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Comments are welcome
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-15370#>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Is MOB an 'owned' feature. The MOB original author is mostly absent
> > > (for
> > > > > instance, no participation in these conversations and no general
> > > > follow-up
> > > > > on test failures). As has been said before many times, features
> need
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > > owned. Writing the code is just one part of owning a feature.
> > Features
> > > > that
> > > > > are not owned become a burden on the community to maintain. We have
> > > > enough
> > > > > of this latter type of feature already.
> > > > >
> > > > > (Jingcheng did show up in the last day though with
> > > HBASE-15381"Implement
> > > > a
> > > > > distributed MOB compaction by procedure" which looks like a pretty
> > > > > important issue and begs the question, is MOB finished? And if not,
> > > > > shouldn't we wait till its done before we backport?)
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally, MOB backport should be done by someone who is familiar
> with
> > > > MOB. I
> > > > > see no evidence of your expertise in MOB other than an odd review
> nor
> > > > even
> > > > > that you've run it in other than a unit test mode. Not to mention
> > that
> > > > the
> > > > > way you go about the backport, dumping an 800k blob of unattributed
> > > code
> > > > > into the issue for review in HBASE-15370, does not bode well for
> our
> > > > > continued stability.
> > > > >
> > > > > St.Ack
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> >
> >    - Andy
> >
> > Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. - Piet Hein
> > (via Tom White)
> >
>

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