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From Andrew Purtell <andrew.purt...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: DISCUSSION: lets do a developer workshop on near-term work
Date Sat, 18 Jul 2015 19:33:20 GMT
+1

Yeah, something like that, with aspirational targets for improvement from current releases.
Then what to measure, the tests to run, and criteria for evaluation are clear and organized
and we're able to better assess how the work in progress is meeting its goals (or not) 



On Jul 18, 2015, at 12:05 PM, Vladimir Rodionov <vladrodionov@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Umbrella jira to make sure we can have blocks cached in offheap backed
> cache. In the entire read path, we can refer to this offheap buffer and
> avoid onheap copying.
> 
> I think, on a read path, the most important improvement we could imagine is
> elimination or reducing of object creations (KVs, iterators etc).
> object reuse, byte buffers reuse or offheap buffers reuse, API change etc.
> If this is a part of this JIRA, then I would easily define a goal:
> improving 95/99% latency of a read operations. Not performance, but latency
> matters
> 
> -Vlad
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Andrew Purtell <andrew.purtell@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> That's not a realistic or useful test scenario, unless the goal is to
>> accelerate queries where all cells are filtered at the server.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 18, 2015, at 11:02 AM, Anoop John <anoop.hbase@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No Andy. 11425 having doc attached to it. At the end of it, we have added
>>> perf numbers in a cluster testing.  This was done using PE get and scan
>>> tests with filtering all cells at server (to not consider n/w bandwidth
>>> constraints)
>>> 
>>> -Anoop-
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:30 PM, Andrew Purtell <
>> andrew.purtell@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> We have some microbenchmarks, not evidence of differences seen from a
>>>> client application. I'm not saying that microbenchmarks are not totally
>>>> necessary and a great start - they are - but that they don't measure an
>> end
>>>> goal. Furthermore unless I've missed one somewhere we don't have a JIRA
>> or
>>>> design doc that states a clear end goal metric like the strawman I threw
>>>> together in my previous mail. A measurable system level goal and some
>> data
>>>> from full cluster testing would go a lot further toward letting all of
>> us
>>>> evaluate the potential and payoff of the work. In the meantime we should
>>>> probably be assembling these changes on a branch instead of in trunk,
>> for
>>>> as long as the goal is not clearly defined and the payoff and potential
>> for
>>>> perf regressions is untested and unknown.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 18, 2015, at 8:05 AM, Anoop John <anoop.hbase@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks Andy and Lars.  The parent jira has doc attached which contains
>>>> some
>>>>> perf gain numbers..  We will be doing more tests in next 2 weeks
>> (before
>>>>> end of this month) and will publish them.   Yes it will be great if it
>> is
>>>>> more IST friendly time :-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Anoop-
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Andrew Purtell <
>>>> andrew.purtell@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I can represent your side Ram (and Anoop). I've been known always
>> argue
>>>>>> both side of a discussion and to never take sides easily (drives
some
>>>> folks
>>>>>> crazy).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can vouch for this (smile)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I also can offer support for off heaping there. At the same time
we do
>>>>>> have a gap where we can't point to a timeline of improvements (yet,
>>>> anyway)
>>>>>> with benchmarks showing gains where your goals need them. For example,
>>>>>> stock HBase in one JVM can address max N GB for response time
>>>> distribution
>>>>>> D; dev version of HBase in off heap branch can address max N' GB
for
>>>>>> distribution D', where N' > N and D > D' (distribution D'
>> statistically
>>>>>> shows better/lower response times).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jul 17, 2015, at 6:56 AM, lars hofhansl <larsh@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm in favor of anything that improves performance (and preferably
>>>>>> doesn't set us back into a world that's worse than C due to the lack
>> of
>>>>>> pointers in Java).Never said "I don't like it", it's just that I'm
>>>> perhaps
>>>>>> asking for more numbers and justification in weighing the pros and
>> cons.
>>>>>>> I can represent your side Ram (and Anoop). I've been known always
>> argue
>>>>>> both side of a discussion and to never take sides easily (drives
some
>>>> folks
>>>>>> crazy). And Stack's there too, he yell at me where needed :)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Perhaps we can do it a bit later in the evening so there is a
>> fighting
>>>>>> chance that folks on IST can participate. I know that some of our
>> folks
>>>> on
>>>>>> IST would love to participate in the backup discussion).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Like Enis, I'm also happy to host. We're in Downtown SF. I'd
just
>> need
>>>>>> an approx. number of folks.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- Lars
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   From: ramkrishna vasudevan <ramkrishna.s.vasudevan@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "dev@hbase.apache.org" <dev@hbase.apache.org>; lars
hofhansl <
>>>>>> larsh@apache.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:10 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: DISCUSSION: lets do a developer workshop on near-term
>> work
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>> What time will it be on August 26th?
>>>>>>> @LarsYa. I know that you are not generally in favour of this
>> offheaping
>>>>>> stuff.  May be if we (from India) can attend this meeting remotely
>> your
>>>>>> thoughts can be discussed and also the current state of this work.
>>>>>>> RegardsRam
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 9:28 PM, lars hofhansl <larsh@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Works for me. I'll be back in the Bay Area the week of August
9th.
>>>>>>> We have done a _lot_ of work on backups as well - ours are more
>>>>>> complicated as we wanted fast per-tenant restores, so data is
>> "grouped"
>>>> by
>>>>>> tenant. Would like to sync up on that (hopefully some of the folks
who
>>>>>> wrote most of the code will be in town, I'll check).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Also interested in the "Time" and "offheap" parts (although you
folks
>>>>>> usually do not like what I think about the offheap efforts :) ).
>>>>>>> Would like to add the following topics:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - "Timestamp Resolution". Or making space for more bits in the
>>>>>> timestamps (happy to cover that, unless it's part of the "Time" topic)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - "Replication". We found that replication cannot keep up with
high
>>>>>> write loads, due to the fact that replicated is strictly single
>> threaded
>>>>>> per regionserver (even though we have multiple region servers on
the
>>>> sink
>>>>>> side)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - "Spark integration" (Ted Malaska?)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> OK... Out now to make a "bullshit hat".
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- Lars
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> From: Sean Busbey <busbey@cloudera.com>
>>>>>>> To: dev <dev@hbase.apache.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:11 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: DISCUSSION: lets do a developer workshop on near-term
>> work
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm planning to be in the Bay area the week of the 24th of August.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Sean
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jul 14, 2015 7:53 PM, "Andrew Purtell" <apurtell@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I can be up in your area in August.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 5:31 PM, Stack <stack@duboce.net>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 3:39 PM, Enis Söztutar <
>> enis.soz@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sounds good. It has been a while we did the talk-aton.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I'll be off starting 25 of July, so I prefer something
next week
>> if
>>>>>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> You ever coming back? If so, when? I'm back on 10th
of August
>>>> (Mikhail
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the 20th).
>>>>>>>>> St.Ack
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Enis
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Stack <stack@duboce.net>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Matteo and I were thinking it time devs got together
for a
>> pow-wow.
>>>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>>>>>> is a bunch of stuff in flight at the moment (see
below list) and
>> it
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> be good to meet and whiteboard, surface goodo
ideas that have
>> gone
>>>>>>>>>> dormant
>>>>>>>>>>> in JIRA, or revisit designs/proposals out in
JIRA-attached google
>>>> doc
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> need socializing.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> You can only come if you are wearing your bullshit
hat.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Topics we'd go over could include:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> + Our filesystem layout will not work if 1M regions
>> (Matteo/Stack)
>>>>>>>>>>> + Current state of the offheaping of read path
and alternate
>>>> KeyValue
>>>>>>>>>>> implementation (Anoop/Ram)
>>>>>>>>>>> + Append rejigger (Elliott)
>>>>>>>>>>> + A Pv2-based Assign (Matteo/Steven)
>>>>>>>>>>> + Splitting meta/1M regions
>>>>>>>>>>> + The revived Backup (Vladimir)
>>>>>>>>>>> + Time (Enis)
>>>>>>>>>>> + The overloaded SequenceId (Stack)
>>>>>>>>>>> + Upstreaming IT testing (Dima/Sean)
>>>>>>>>>>> + hbase-2.0.0
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I put names by folks I know could talk to the
topic. If you want
>> to
>>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>>>>> over a topic or put your name by one, just say.
 Suggest that
>>>>>>>>> discussion
>>>>>>>>>>> lead off with a 5-10minute on current state of
>>>>>>>>>>> thought/design/implementation.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> What do others think?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> What date would suit folks?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone want to host?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> Matteo and St.Ack
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  - Andy
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back.
- Piet
>>>> Hein
>>>>>>>> (via Tom White)
>> 

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