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From Michael Segel <michael_se...@hotmail.com>
Subject Re: Status of Huawei's 2' Indexing?
Date Mon, 16 Mar 2015 15:52:19 GMT
Here we go again… 

1) Complexity?

2) Speed when looking at the indexes in a more general case. 

3) Resources required to do the search become excessive...


Again, your indexes will be orthogonal to the base table. 
If you can’t understand that… then you need to sit back, drink a few cocktails. (Burbon,
Single Malts, craft beers, Vodka, whatever… ) AND THINK ABOUT THE PROBLEM.

I think that’s the biggest issue. You’re not thinking about the problem enough before
you take hand to keyboard and bang out crappy code. 

To make it simple… so what you’re saying is that you want to have two indexes… one orthogonal
to the base table so you can use it for table joins or when you want faster performance, and
the second when you want an advanced filter on a region. (God only know why you would want


Apply KISS and then get back to me.  

> On Mar 16, 2015, at 10:38 AM, Vladimir Rodionov <vladrodionov@gmail.com> wrote:
> There is nothing wrong with co-locating index and data on a same RS. This
> will greatly improve single table search. Joins are evil anyway. Leave them
> to RDBMS Zoo.
> -Vlad
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:14 AM, Michael Segel <michael_segel@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> You’ll have to excuse Andy.
>> He’s a bit slow.  HBASE-13044 should have been done 2 years ago. And it
>> was trivial. Just got done last month….
>> But I digress… The long story short…
>> HBASE-9203 was brain dead from inception.  Huawei’s idea was to index on
>> the region which had two problems.
>> 1) Complexity in that they wanted to keep the index on the same region
>> server
>> 2) Joins become impossible.  Well, actually not impossible, but incredibly
>> slow when compared to the alternative.
>> You really should go back to the email chain.
>> Their defense (including Salesforce who was going to push this approach)
>> fell apart when you asked the simple question on how do you handle joins?
>> That’s their OOPS moment. Once you start to understand that, then allowing
>> the index to be orthogonal to the base table, things started to come
>> together.
>> In short, you have a query either against a single table, or if you’re
>> doing a join.  You then get the indexes and assuming that you’re only using
>> the AND predicate, its a simple intersection of the index result sets.
>> (Since the result sets are ordered, its relatively trivial to walk through
>> and find the intersections of N Lists in a single pass.)
>> Now you have your result set of base table row keys and you can work with
>> that data. (Either returning the records to the client, or as input to a
>> map/reduce job.
>> That’s the 30K view.  There’s more to it, but once Salesforce got the
>> basic idea, they ran with it. It was really that simple concept that the
>> index would be orthogonal to the base table that got them moving in the
>> right direction.
>> To Joseph’s point, indexing isn’t necessarily an RDBMS feature. However,
>> it seems that some of the Committers are suffering from rectal induced
>> hypoxia. HBASE-12853 was created not just to help solve the issue of ‘hot
>> spotting’ but also to get the Committers to focus on bringing the solutions
>> that they glum on in the client, back to the server side of things.
>> Unfortunately the last great attempt at fixing things on the server side
>> was the bastardization of coprocessors which again, suffers from the lack
>> of thought.  This isn’t to say that allowing users to extend the server
>> side functionality is wrong. (Because it isn’t.) But that the
>> implementation done in HBase is a tad lacking in thought.
>> So in terms of indexing…
>> Longer term picture, there has to be some fixes on the server side of
>> things to allow one to associate an index (allowing for different types) to
>> a base table, yet the implementation of using the index would end up
>> becoming a client.  And by client, it would be an external query engine
>> processor that could/should sit on the cluster.
>> But hey! What do I know?
>> I gave up trying to have an intelligent/civilized conversation with Andrew
>> because he just couldn’t grasp the basics.  ;-)
>>> On Mar 13, 2015, at 4:14 PM, Andrew Purtell <apurtell@apache.org> wrote:
>>> When I made that remark I was thinking of a recent discussion we had at a
>>> joint Phoenix and HBase developer meetup. The difference of opinion was
>>> certainly civilized. (smile) I'm not aware of any specific written
>>> discussion, it may or may not exist. I'm pretty sure a revival of
>> HBASE-9203
>>> would attract some controversy, but let me be clearer this time than I
>> was
>>> before that this is just my opinion, FWIW.
>>> On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Rose, Joseph <
>>> Joseph.Rose@childrens.harvard.edu> wrote:
>>>> I saw that it was added to their project. I’m really not keen on
>> bringing
>>>> in all the RDBMS apparatus on top of hbase, so I decided to follow other
>>>> avenues first (like trying to patch 0.98, for better or worse.)
>>>> That Phoenix article seems like a good breakdown of the various indexing
>>>> architectures.
>>>> HBASE-9203 (the ticket that deals with 2’ indexes) is pretty civilized
>> (as
>>>> are most of them, it seems) so I didn’t know there were these
>> differences
>>>> of opinion. Did I miss the mailing list thread where the architectural
>>>> differences were discussed?
>>>> -j
>> The opinions expressed here are mine, while they may reflect a cognitive
>> thought, that is purely accidental.
>> Use at your own risk.
>> Michael Segel
>> michael_segel (AT) hotmail.com

The opinions expressed here are mine, while they may reflect a cognitive thought, that is
purely accidental. 
Use at your own risk. 
Michael Segel
michael_segel (AT) hotmail.com

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