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From Wei Tan <w...@us.ibm.com>
Subject Re: memstore timestamp and visible timestamp
Date Mon, 06 Aug 2012 14:25:19 GMT
Hi,

   A follow up question:

   When using region assigned ts, are these two assumptions true?
1.      it is impossible that two puts on the same row will have the same 
ts, regardless of whether or not autoflush is enabled.
2.      preput internalput and postput are all inside put, which in turn 
is guarded by a row lock. Therefore, the whole process of a row and its 
associated coprocessors, will NOT interleave in timeline.

   These semantics are very important in my implementation of a 
coprocessor.
Best Regards,
Wei

Wei Tan 
Research Staff Member 
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
19 Skyline Dr, Hawthorne, NY  10532
wtan@us.ibm.com; 914-784-6752



From:   Wei Tan/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
To:     dev@hbase.apache.org, 
Cc:     "hbase-dev@hadoop.apache.org" <hbase-dev@hadoop.apache.org>
Date:   08/03/2012 05:59 PM
Subject:        Re: memstore timestamp and visible timestamp



Hi Lars,

   I agree with you on that, this comparison only makes sense when we have 

two concurrent put to the same key, i.e., (k, v1) and (k, v2), AND we ask 
the region server to assign their timestamp. The relations of ts(kv1) and 
ts (kv2) can be non-deterministic, which is fine. A desired feature, which 

seems to be already satisfied in the current implementation, is that if 
ts(kv1) < ts(kv2), it probably should be visible earlier as the latest 
value (i.e., memts(kv1)<memts(kv2)), otherwise it will never be!

   Thank you Lars!

Best Regards,
Wei

Wei Tan 
Research Staff Member 
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
19 Skyline Dr, Hawthorne, NY  10532
wtan@us.ibm.com; 914-784-6752



From:   lars hofhansl <lhofhansl@yahoo.com>
To:     "dev@hbase.apache.org" <dev@hbase.apache.org>, 
Cc:     "hbase-dev@hadoop.apache.org" <hbase-dev@hadoop.apache.org>
Date:   08/03/2012 05:45 PM
Subject:        Re: memstore timestamp and visible timestamp



We are also mixing concepts here.
memTS is a regionserver local concept, there is no distributed aspect to 
this.


The whole memTS vs TS discussion is somewhat pointless as memTS is an 
internal concept and TS is part of the client visible data.
There can be a single Put adding many columns with the same rowkey, all 
with different TSs and all these changes are still only visible 
atomically, which is handled by the memTS.

-- Lars


----- Original Message -----
From: Vladimir Rodionov <vrodionov@carrieriq.com>
To: "dev@hbase.apache.org" <dev@hbase.apache.org>; lars hofhansl 
<lhofhansl@yahoo.com>
Cc: "hbase-dev@hadoop.apache.org" <hbase-dev@hadoop.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 2:27 PM
Subject: RE: memstore timestamp and visible timestamp

Time can go backwards. One time a year. By one hour.
I may be wrong but it seems that the situation described by TS (memTS1 > 
memTS2 and ts1 < ts2) is possible but under concurrent
updates in a distributed environment the only way to guarantee "fairness" 
of operations is to put all of them into one global queue.
I really doubt that this is what people need (and want).


Upd: It is possible to keep a queue per server-row inside RS. This is the 
question of how do we define order of requests in
concurrent environment. We can have one global queue, one queue per RS or 
(at the lowest granularity) one queue per key-row but
the most efficient way (and of course not the most fair) - add the element 

of randomness - let OS decide which thread it will give time slot to 
first.

Best regards,
Vladimir Rodionov
Principal Platform Engineer
Carrier IQ, www.carrieriq.com


________________________________________
From: lars hofhansl [lhofhansl@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 12:11 PM
To: dev@hbase.apache.org
Cc: hbase-dev@hadoop.apache.org
Subject: Re: memstore timestamp and visible timestamp

I see. This is not as much a stated guarantee but a fact following from 
the implementation.


The memTS is handed out per region server - which is fine, because the 
only consistency guarantee HBase makes is for KVs of the same row,
and these are always colocated in the same region (and hence the same 
region server).
Since the region server also hands out the TSs based on wall clock time 
(and assuming time does not go backwards) it follows that a KV assigned a 
later memTS cannot have an earlier TS.

Of course that is not the case if you use client assigned TSs.

Maybe I should write a followup blog post that more clearly describes the 
relationship (or rather the absence thereof) between the memTS and the TS.


The gist is that the memTS is strictly internal to guarantee ACID 
properties (and HBase could have used readlocks for this as well, and if 
it did that would be transparent to the outside),
whereas the TS is an application level concept, it is part of the data (so 

to speak).


-- Lars
________________________________
From: Wei Tan <wtan@us.ibm.com>
To: dev@hbase.apache.org
Cc: "hbase-dev@hadoop.apache.org" <hbase-dev@hadoop.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: memstore timestamp and visible timestamp

Hi Lars,

   Appreciate your reply. Actually I read your blog posting and then had
that question. I am very interested in how you guarantee this:

   Also note that if you use the Region Server assigned TSs then mTS1<mTS2
implies TS1<=TS2 (the update might happen with the same ms).

  In case you have a pointer explaining this, I would like to read.
Otherwise I will dig into the code later today. I remember reading 0.92.0
code and do not find much clue. But I will try again.



Best Regards,
Wei

Wei Tan
Research Staff Member
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
19 Skyline Dr, Hawthorne, NY  10532
wtan@us.ibm.com; 914-784-6752



From:   lars hofhansl <lhofhansl@yahoo.com>
To:     "dev@hbase.apache.org" <dev@hbase.apache.org>,
"hbase-dev@hadoop.apache.org" <hbase-dev@hadoop.apache.org>,
Date:   08/02/2012 07:35 PM
Subject:        Re: memstore timestamp and visible timestamp



Hi Wei,

you have to distinguish between "visible to other concurrent scanners" and
"visible to a client".
What's visible to a client is determined by what the a client wants to see
based on the application visible timestamp (TS).

The visibility to concurrent scanners is controlled by the memstoreTS
(mTS) to avoid "strange" states sue to parallel updates.
HBase here guards against partially visible "transactions" (i.e. a Put of
many columns that fails after it applied the changes to some of the
columns).

The scenario you describe below is indeed desired. Note that a client can
request seeing the older versions too so the older edit (in terms of TS is
not lost).
Also note that if you use the Region Server assigned TSs then mTS1<mTS2
implies TS1<=TS2 (the update might happen with the same ms).

If you do not mind a longer read, I have written about this here:
http://hadoop-hbase.blogspot.com/2012/03/acid-in-hbase.html

Let me know if that makes any sense.

-- Lars


----- Original Message -----
From: Wei Tan <wtan@us.ibm.com>
To: hbase-dev@hadoop.apache.org
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 3:35 PM
Subject: memstore timestamp and visible timestamp

Hi,

  I have a question regarding the correlation between the visible
timestamp of a KV (denoted as ts) and its memstore timestamp (aka, the
write number, denoted as memts). Reading the HRegion.java code it seems
that these two are independently assigned. Let's assume two concurrent
put: (k, v1) and (k, v2)


  Suppose somehow memts(k,v1) < memts(k, v2) then (k,v1) will be committed

and visible before (k,v2).
If ts(k,v1) < ts(k, v2), then after both KVs commits, (k,v2) becomes the
latest version.
else, if ts(k,v1) > ts(k, v2), then after a "later"(w.r.t. MVCC) KV
commits, it immediately become stale and still not visible. --- Is it a
desirable feature?


  Am I understanding it correctly, that memts(k,v1) < memts(k, v2) does
not indicate that ts(k,v1) < ts(k, v2), and vice versa?
PS: let's talk about the hbase region server assigned, not user assigned,
visible timestamp.

  Thanks,

Wei

Best Regards,
Wei

Wei Tan
Research Staff Member
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
19 Skyline Dr, Hawthorne, NY  10532
wtan@us.ibm.com; 914-784-6752

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