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From Bernd Fondermann <bernd.fonderm...@googlemail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] Accumulo, another BigTable clone, has shown up on Apache Incubator as a proposal
Date Mon, 05 Sep 2011 10:50:38 GMT
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 10:30, Steven Noels <stevenn@outerthought.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 8:06 PM, Stack <stack@duboce.net> wrote:
>
> See here for the incubator proposal:
>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/AccumuloProposal
>>
>
> I'm usually dumbfounded with the amount of secrecy that typically surrounds
> these incubator proposals - which is weird as the goal is ultimately to open
> something up. I've been around ASF long enough to
> realize organizations often have specific goals as to when and how drop
> their precious jewels into the Foundation. Oh well.
>
> I for one am more disappointed that this apparently has been an on-going
> work for quite some time, shrouded in secrecy, by people fully aware of the
> fact that an equivalent - community-driven - alternative existed - however
> they didn't feel obliged or inclined to go the extra mile and start
> communicating (or collaborating!) and they now try and look for technical
> reasons as to whether they really had to do their own thing. It's pretty
> unconvincing to open something up only once it's done and you can afford to
> have other cooks in the kitchen.

You are putting this as if there is a hidden agenda of some kind.
This is purely speculation. Otherwise, please come up with facts.

I read the proposal and surrounding discussion this way: Because of
legal issues this NSA-internal project was unable to contribute back
(whether or not that's actually true, I cannot say).
They were trying to open source it, to be able to interact with the
relevant Apache projects (I learned on this thread these are Hadoop
and HBase) and had to overcome the legal issues (pls. see the cited
LEGAL-JIRA item) which took some time. (NB: These issues are not yet
finally solved. The proposal asks for derivation from our standard
ICLA.)
Now they are open sourcing it.
Isn't this what you ask for?

I think it would be cool if the HBase community which "is responsible
for the creation and maintenance of software related to a distributed
database" (board resolution) shows its openess and gets involved with
the project as mentors, committers, lurkers.

> But rather than shifting the burden to our side, maybe the incubator should
> be rather strict in verifying there *is* a viable community for an
> Apache-style development model at Accumulo.

Sure, that's the single most important goal for any podling.

> I've been mentoring BEA code
> dumps myself into Apache, and once the company focus shifted, the lack of
> genuine community dev adoption became rapidly apparent. Which was shortly
> after that project graduated, of course.

A project may lose community any time in or after graduation. We seen
projects not even making it into the Incubator after being voted in.
I cannot foresee the future. Can you?
I certainly am not in the
speculating-about-what-happens-after-successful-graduation business.
If you look at the 100-or-so projects at the ASF, there are all shades
of grey, from healthy to brain-dead.

   Bernd

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