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From Andrew Purtell <apurt...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] Accumulo, another BigTable clone, has shown up on Apache Incubator as a proposal
Date Sat, 03 Sep 2011 02:13:33 GMT
> I'm simply pointing out a lack of community involvement to date. 

I would only add to this that the incubation proposal makes a controversial statement regarding
existing involvement with the HBase community. It may be technically true if a certain company
with involvement in HBase has also been interacting with "Accumulo", but is disingenuous to
claim that the "community" has been involved here.

It looks like strictly a one way street: They have been able to observe or borrow the fruits
of our labor for years, and now at a suitable point wish to incubate at the ASF to compete
with our project for community. That is not "community involvement". That is leeching.

Best regards,

       - Andy

Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. - Piet Hein (via Tom White)

>From: Gary Helmling <ghelmling@gmail.com>
>To: dev@hbase.apache.org
>Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2011 3:55 AM
>Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] Accumulo, another BigTable clone, has shown up on Apache Incubator
as a proposal
>> I've been in touch with this team for the last 18 months or so.
>> They're good people, smart, and have a healthy respect for HBase and
>> our team. Though they haven't contributed code or participated on the
>> lists, I can vouch that they do follow our development and generally
>> do understand HBase as well as what makes their system different. In
>> the context of the incubator proposal, they're trying to explain why
>> their system is different than HBase, and not trying to knock our
>> project.
>Sure, I'm not trying to knock the people or the project.  I am trying to
>point out what I view as some inaccuracies in the comparison vs. HBase.  But
>I haven't seen the code, so I can only speculate.
>There are a couple things to keep in mind about the story here:
>> - they first evaluated HBase 3 years ago. HBase at that point was not
>> usable for their application - I think several of us here remember the
>> state of HBase at the time and might have made the same decision. So,
>> they started their own project with an internal team of 5-6 people.
>I can sympathize, but I don't see how that's relevant to the discussion of
>whether it's a good idea to incubate this project now.
>> - contributing to open source from within the NSA is not easy, for
>> obvious reasons. They've jumped through many hoops to open source
>> this, and we should be thankful for that. Now that they're out in open
>> source land, I think we'll see them collaborating with us much more
>> openly.
>Again I can sympathize, and if I didn't make it clear before, I applaud the
>efforts to open source this project!  But the question at hand is not
>whether it's good to open source the project, but whether it's appropriate
>for incubation at the ASF.  And honestly, I don't think where the project is
>coming from should play into that decision.
>I'm simply pointing out a lack of community involvement to date.  Maybe the
>involvement is different with the other Apache projects cited, or maybe that
>will change during incubation.  But to the extent that collaboration is
>encouraged, I think the lack of involvement to date is relevant.
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