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From Andrew Purtell <apurt...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Google patent over Map Reduce - Hbase reflections
Date Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:28:10 GMT
> Because if hadoop is just a 1:1 replica of the Google system, then there is no 
> chance that it will attract more than the academic community and its nice 
> success story is going to end here... I see enough intellectual power in the 
> team to be able to take the Google patent and produce the next generation...

It's a fair argument that Hadoop mapreduce is a Google MapReduce clone -- which 
has been extended in several directions by the community, of course. Given that,
and the in my personal experience substantial commercial application of the
technology already, clearly the success story has already spread far beyond any
reasonable definition of "academic". 

I am also of the opinion that this is a defensive move by Google. It would be in
direct opposition to years of experience we have with this company should they
go after the ASF in any way. 

Furthermore, I'm not a patent lawyer, but I believe for the HBase case, that
HBase (and HDFS) are not covered by these patents, except for the mapreduce
integration package, which could be dropped without any loss of HBase 
functionality for clients using the HBase client API. So the direct impact on
HBase for some worst-case scenario would be low as far as I can see. 

   - Andy


----- Original Message ----
> From: Laurence Hubert <Laurence.Hubert@free.fr>
> To: hbase-dev@hadoop.apache.org
> Sent: Thu, January 21, 2010 7:33:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Google patent over Map Reduce - Hbase reflections
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> I think the impact of this patent should not be underestimated. If Hadoop/HBase 
> is only an educational system and not used by anybody for any business then I 
> agree there is no threat to the community...
> but if companies are relaying on it to do business (and some started to evaluate 
> the use of Hadoop/HBase in commercial systems) then the companies businesses or 
> products might be threatened. This means, unless something is done, companies 
> cannot select Hadoop/HBase anymore for implementations because this is too much 
> of a risk... which is in fact the biggest threat to hadoop... it was becoming 
> popular and companies started to consider supporting it (providing development 
> resources...) because this was a possible platform for their businesses...
> 
> In my opinion a healthy attitude to this would be to analyse what was actually 
> *really* protected and be creative on how hadoop could/should differentiate. 
> Because if hadoop is just a 1:1 replica of the Google system, then there is no 
> chance that it will attract more than the academic community and its nice 
> success story is going to end here... I see enough intellectual power in the 
> team to be able to take the Google patent and produce the next generation...
> 
> My two cents,
> Laurence Hubert
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Kay" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:28 AM
> Subject: Re: Google patent over Map Reduce - Hbase reflections
> 
> 
> > On 1/20/10 3:44 PM, stack wrote:
> >> I've been following the thread.  I would tend to side with the general tenor
> >> that has it that its likely a just-in-case move by Google and that the
> >> likelihood of a Google suing Apache is not likely to happen in this
> >> dimension.
> >> 
> >> 
> > That was my general idea as well.
> > 
> >> Are you (or your employer) spooked Kay Kay?
> >> 
> >> 
> > Not at all - but just started this to see what the opinions of the
> > community might be w.r.t. this.
> > 
> >> St.Ack
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Kay Kay  wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> A big thread currently going on at the hadoop common user mailing list -
> >>> 
> >>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-common-user/201001.mbox/<
> >>> 2c36b701001200817g77f245b1x6ba9d7d2cfd9ec93@mail.gmail.com>  .
> >>> 
> >>> A good number of you might have already seen that thread, but just opening
> >>> up a thread for discussion to see what the thoughts of the community are
,
> >>> w.r.t. patent and how much (if at all) of the application would be related
> >>> to that / any refactorings as necessary as seen by the team or thoughts
in
> >>> general to the same.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
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