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From David Beberman <dbeber...@aicas.com>
Subject Re: [general] specialized JVM for Groovy
Date Sat, 04 Jun 2011 16:05:21 GMT
FYI -- always hurts to not see JamaicaVM from Aicas included as one of 
the JVMs to
consider.  We like to think that its the "big four" :)
If you want hard real-time, multicore, compiled performance and CPU/MCU 
we like to think we lead the market.
I don't want to do an advertisement on this mailing list.
Just thought I'd mention us and ask that we don't get forgotten.

(sitting down after raising hand and jumping up and down, shouting me 
too, me too)

David Beberman

On 6/4/2011 10:35 AM, Krystal Mok wrote:
> Hi Jochen,
> What you proposed sure is technically feasible, but whether it'd happen in Harmony, that's
another story.
> The three big JVMs, namely HotSpot, JRockit and J9 all perform some sort of idiom recognition
to speed up common idioms. But it's quite unlikely for them to optimize for any single language
other than Java. If any other language want to run fast on them, it'd either behave a lot
like Java, or it should rely on invokedynamic to talk to the VM. The latter should be the
recommended way to go, as time goes on, these JVMs should do very good job of optimizing dynamic
usage. The missing pieces would be things like fixnums and the like, but since Groovy's type
system is pretty close to Java's (and doesn't use fixnums like Ruby does), these shouldn't
be a problem.
> The Maxine VM from Sun Labs (now Oracle Labs) would be pretty nice if you're experimenting
ideas. I'd recommend a presentation "Leveraging Meta-Circularity in the Maxine VM" from JVM
Language Summit 2008 (http://www.wiki.jvmlangsummit.com/pdf/12_Mathiske_max.pdf), page 28.
I'm sure Charles Nutter wanted to try making a specialized version of Maxine VM for JRuby,
maybe he can share his ideas on this.
> Ah, I just saw your reply on Maxine and GPL...no wonder you're looking into Harmony.
> With that, other options might include Jikes RVM and MRP (http://mrp.codehaus.org/),
both of which are EPL-1.0 licensed.
> Regards,
> Kris Mok
> On 2011-6-4, at 21:28, Jochen Theodorou<blackdrag@gmx.org>  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I noticed that there is recently not much going on in harmony, but I hope there are
still enough people to react to this mail.
>> As one implementing a dynamic language for the JVM, namely Groovy, I continuously
have to fight the JVM in so many terms, that I am wondering if it would not be an idea to
extend an existing JVM to make things fast. For this I was thinking of an basically running
implementation in Java, but with special recognition by for example the JIT, to remove some
of the heavy stones in the pathway. This is for example the meta class system, invoking methods
in general, hopefully to be able to collapse some code paths and maybe do some checks internally
faster than what we have now.
>> Of course with invokedynamic JSR292 we would get maybe many of these things, but
there will be still problems, only a bit less.
>> So I was wondering if Harmony would be a good starting point for this kind of approach.
I would like to hear some opinions of the developers if you care.
>> bye Jochen
>> -- 
>> Jochen "blackdrag" Theodorou
>> The Groovy Project Tech Lead
>> http://blackdragsview.blogspot.com/
>> For Groovy programming sources visit http://groovy.codehaus.org

David Beberman
Dir. Business Development
Aicas, Inc.
The Leader in Embedded, Realtime, and Safety Critical Java Technology
C: 508 510 1155
T: 508 210 4083

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